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Old 09-21-2018, 08:48 PM
 
6,013 posts, read 2,697,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AleeGee View Post
I don't approve of the me too movement. These women hang on to this occurrence of sexual misconduct for two decades (more?), then come forth and claim how they were traumatized by the incident. Do civil suits follow? I'll bet they do. I think these women are vengeful, opportunistic, and cunning. You know, you punish a child when they do sonething wrong, right then and there, not later. So how come these women get to punish somebody years later, and get away with it? You're supposed to acknowledge something when it happens. I would go to town on a dude if he grabbed me or whatever. It's not right to pull this wicked **** on a man.. GET OVER IT!! It happened decades ago, and if you want to bring it up now, you're a scheming, scamming little *****. Not only that, they didn't think about anybody else except themselves. By not stepping forward, they've allowed this person to continue unchecked. That's sisterhood? There's got to be a statute made. This is f----- ridiculous. Coming forward to ruin somebody's life. In twenty years, they're going to hope somebody wants to touch them.
I agree.

Women who don't report assault/rape when it happens are a huge part of the problem.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:24 PM
 
Location: California
29,580 posts, read 31,907,081 times
Reputation: 24725
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
I could kind of agree with you about some elements - but if people haven't figured out by now that there are a lot of things pushing women NOT to report, especially as with something decades ago, when it wouldn't have been treated seriously, or with someone famous ... well, they haven't been paying attention to the news.

I, too, am sometimes bothered by the non-reporting, but it became very clear to me with Blasey Ford that this was likely accurate when I learned that it was 30 years ago, and she was only 15. Cops wouldn't even have treated it as a crime.

And I have to disagree with you on one thing - people are indeed portraying the victim to be a liar.
They wouldn't have treated it as a crime because it was two drunk juveniles messing around at a party and nothing actually happened.
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Old 09-22-2018, 03:19 AM
Status: "Pbs logo first ever NPC?" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: IL
881 posts, read 225,133 times
Reputation: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
They wouldn't have treated it as a crime because it was two drunk juveniles messing around at a party and nothing actually happened.
Is there a single person that can put one or both of Kav/Ford at this specific party? No.

I don't think it happened at all.
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Old 09-22-2018, 03:47 AM
 
980 posts, read 667,440 times
Reputation: 1443
There are many women who don't report for years because they are legitimately afraid, or want to move on.

That, however, is not my biggest problem with #MeToo

It is this; they want any accusation, regardless of the lack of evidence to carry as much weight as a full conviction. No due process. No investigation. No apologies or corrections. If Man A and Woman B have a consensual happy relationship and, Woman C, out of spite or ignorance, doesn't like what she saw between A and B, she can yell he committed a sex crime and, A's life is irreparably damaged, with currently no legitimate recourse.

Southern small-town sherrifs WISH they could throw away due process like this.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:18 AM
 
9,865 posts, read 11,373,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Your statement that I bolded is bull.

I know many girls/women who reported sexual assault/rape in the 70's/80's to LEO. There reports were all treated as crimes.

This is just a myth that LEO doesn't take these claims seriously and/or don't treat victims with respect.
I was a high school student (in Maryland) at the same time as Kavanaugh/Blasey. I agree with you that if you were walking down the street and assaulted and/or raped by a stranger and you went to the police, you were taken seriously.

I think the high school/partying drinking instances are quite a different matter. I don't think they were taken seriously at all, if they were reported because you'd get the "boys will be boys" thing as well as "well, you all were doing something to begin with that you weren't supposed to be doing" and it was covered up.

I can 100% see why Blasey didn't report.

1. It wasn't the "culture" back then to report against your classmates with situation such as date rape. We didn't even know it was a thing and many victims of it believed they had to deal with it.
2. Imagine a 15 year old, probably at a party her parents didn't know she was at, involved with drinking they shouldn't be doing, and your whole reputation at school is on the line. As a 50 something now, I can look back and see how stupid those thoughts are, but it is your whole world when you are 15. You just shut up and move along or you'd be ostracized.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:23 AM
 
62,383 posts, read 27,757,678 times
Reputation: 7866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobo1 View Post
Is there a single person that can put one or both of Kav/Ford at this specific party? No.
Correct.
Quote:
I don't think it happened at all.
You're not the only one. Only 26% of respondents think Ford's allegation is credible (source: HuffPo). The Democrats may have made an egregiously miscalculated error by rolling out this uncorroborated claim right before midterms.
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Old 09-22-2018, 04:36 AM
 
2,234 posts, read 1,269,773 times
Reputation: 2385
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmil View Post
The biggest problem I have with the #MeToo movement is how it seems like some people want to make employing good sense a problem. It's getting worse the more we hear about old cases where there is no actual proof of what happened, like in the recent Brett Kavanaugh scandal.

There are two reasons why asking whether someone reported an incident at the time to the police, or why they chose not to, is an essential question. The first is that if the person doesn't report it, we don't know that it happened. Pretty straightforward.

The second and slightly less obvious reason is, legal determinations of facts are made by law enforcement, not individuals. Witnesses can speak to the facts of a case, but they don't get to make legal conclusions about those facts because 1) that's why we have police officers and district attorneys and judges and 2) they're not qualified to do that.

That's why sometimes it might seem as if accusers are badgered or disbelieved when they do report these things to the police. It's not that they're trying to portray the victim to be a liar, but before someone can be charged with a crime, there are legal elements that have to be satisfied.

If we start just accepting people not reporting things that have criminal implications, eventually people are going to start to see sexual misconduct as the go-to smear for someone they dislike. It doesn't have to be technically true in order for it to work. Just make an accusation and then be conveniently offended by anybody demanding proof.
It's interesting that you didn't touch upon the possibilities of why they didn't report it in the first place.

One reason why they don't report it is because the actions that lead up to the sexual assault are actions that will be viewed with a critical view. Why were you wearing that? Why were you leading that person on?

The reality is, the victim was simply behaving in ways that her society modeled to her. And the assaulter was probably behaving in ways that society modeled to him (entitlement). But who gets the blame for taking it too far?

What also happens is when a person does report it, not only do they receive the accusatory questions, but when they are young, they see the situation get swept under the rug. Why? The implications of my third paragraph is that the culture of that society needs to come into question.

Why is this important years later? We need to know if the culture of the assaulter has changed. Prison sentences won't change our culture but perhaps social media will, which is simply a way to share not only information but experiences.\

Social media allows our most vulnerable members of our society to connect to others. We did not have the capability years ago.

Last edited by elyn02; 09-22-2018 at 04:45 AM..
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:21 AM
 
33,316 posts, read 14,541,521 times
Reputation: 7581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
I could kind of agree with you about some elements - but if people haven't figured out by now that there are a lot of things pushing women NOT to report, especially as with something decades ago, when it wouldn't have been treated seriously, or with someone famous ... well, they haven't been paying attention to the news.

I, too, am sometimes bothered by the non-reporting, but it became very clear to me with Blasey Ford that this was likely accurate when I learned that it was 30 years ago, and she was only 15. Cops wouldn't even have treated it as a crime.

And I have to disagree with you on one thing - people are indeed portraying the victim to be a liar.

"people are indeed portraying the victim to be a liar."


I have NOT seen that even from the right. They ALL have said she needs and DESREVES to be heard.


It is the left who have point blank said SHE is right and Kavanagh is guilty WITHOUT even seeing the letter she sent to fienstein or anything other the accusation.
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Texas
42,203 posts, read 49,753,916 times
Reputation: 66975
Looking back, if I reported every guy who groped, rubbed, harassed, etc, when I was a teen/young adult, I would have spent half my life at the police station.

Never mind the other guys and overall cultural idea to "take it as a compliment."
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Old 09-22-2018, 05:37 AM
 
33,316 posts, read 14,541,521 times
Reputation: 7581
Quote:
Originally Posted by AleeGee View Post
I don't approve of the me too movement. These women hang on to this occurrence of sexual misconduct for two decades (more?), then come forth and claim how they were traumatized by the incident. Do civil suits follow? I'll bet they do. I think these women are vengeful, opportunistic, and cunning. You know, you punish a child when they do sonething wrong, right then and there, not later. So how come these women get to punish somebody years later, and get away with it? You're supposed to acknowledge something when it happens. I would go to town on a dude if he grabbed me or whatever. It's not right to pull this wicked **** on a man.. GET OVER IT!! It happened decades ago, and if you want to bring it up now, you're a scheming, scamming little *****. Not only that, they didn't think about anybody else except themselves. By not stepping forward, they've allowed this person to continue unchecked. That's sisterhood? There's got to be a statute made. This is f----- ridiculous. Coming forward to ruin somebody's life. In twenty years, they're going to hope somebody wants to touch them.
I believe she believes something happened to her. It may have.

What I have a problem with is she doesn't even know WHERE it happened, how she got there, how she got home, etc. and other things. She can't recall 1 other person there at party with a lot of her friends other then Kavennaugh and 1 other person.

Appently this all girls school and the all boys school fraternized a LOT together.

It "appears" to me she was so drunk she CAN'T remember a single other person, and she knew a LOT of them.

I understand the "trauma" but, after a few days or weeks IF what she claim was so "bad" she woukd have told her closest friends at the least.

If she felt so bad about this why didn't she say something when Kavennaugh FIRST was up for a judgeship, or his 2nd time, etc.? She has had PLENTY of opportunities to do so. Why wait until NOW?

Last edited by Quick Enough; 09-22-2018 at 05:46 AM..
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