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You are saying gay people should not be allowed to be gay. There are several Muslim countries that agree with you.
I have never said that. Ever.
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Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
What gives you the right to decide what others should be allowed to do? I am not gay but I don't see what they are doing that effects your life in any way.
So you're opposed to all laws. Because nobody has any right to decide what others should be allowed to do. Sure...lets have that approach to managing our complex social problems. Seems like that should work out just fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
Do you understand how adoptions work? The birth mother usually has no idea who adopts their kid for obvious reasons.
This is not true, but besides the point. I'm sure they have preferences. And I am also pretty sure that most birth mothers would prefer that their child not be adopted by a gay couple.
You said this: I want laws that enforce reality, and that contribute to society by encouraging normal social relationships.
You are saying you want to have laws that enforce normal social relationships. So you are saying gay people cannot be gay or do they have to be in hiding for fear of breaking your laws. What would be the punishment for gays breaking your reality laws?
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Originally Posted by phantompilot
So you're opposed to all laws.
No I never said that. People that harm others have to be punished. I am fine with laws that deal with real problems. Not ones that only exist for social engineering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot
Because nobody has any right to decide what others should be allowed to do. Sure...lets have that approach to managing our complex social problems. Seems like that should work out just fine.
You think that your way is the correct way and you want to micro manage everyone with laws that enforce your way. What is the problem with people living life in the way that makes them happy, instead of living in a way that makes you happy? Live and let live.
Last edited by Oklazona Bound; 09-28-2018 at 06:15 PM..
You said this: I want laws that enforce reality, and that contribute to society by encouraging normal social relationships.
You are saying you want to have laws that enforce normal social relationships. So you are saying gay people cannot be gay or do they have to be in hiding for fear of breaking your laws. What would be the punishment for gays breaking your reality laws?
I never suggested anyone cannot be gay. Or that they need to be hiding.
How could gays violate laws that reflect reality? I'm not understanding the premise here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
No I never said that. People that harm others have to be punished. I am fine with laws that deal with real problems. Not ones that only exist for social engineering.
But you said "What gives you the right to decide what others should be allowed to do?".
We have decided, as a nation, as a people, that we DO have the right to decide what others should be allowed to do. I'm not responsible for this, I'm just here to tell you what actually exists and what doesn't. I get that you think the system is unfair. But its the system we have, and we think its the best one that has been conceived of so far for managing complex social issues. That's the general consensus. We've seen all the others - and they don't come close to what we have created.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oklazona Bound
You think that your way is the correct way and you want to micro manage everyone with laws that enforce your way. What is the problem with people living life in the way that makes them happy, instead of living in a way that makes you happy? Live and let live.
It isn't MY way. Its the way of the nation and the system that has been adopted for managing the people within it.
I've never said people can't live life in the way that makes them happy. Go right ahead. Have at it.
There's always going to be some limits where something might make someone happy, but its not lawful to do it. That's just the system we have. We can't account for everyone's whims - laws are inherently made for the general case, and the process for deciding what that case is, happens to be, like it or not, the process that we have right now, today. It's basically a "mob rule" system, but with some attempts at mitigating abuses levied by the majority against the minority.
But that's what we've got to work with.
What cannot be done with the law, is it being used to control what people think. Leftists tend to hate this - they have a fetish for criminalizing dissent, always have. And again, that falls into the category of we have observed all the other systems for managing societies, and ours is the best yet created...we as a people have rejected all of the others.
That's even caused division within the "LGBTQ..." community. There are gay couples that are just as concerned about the safety of their children, transgenders who are strongly (and for logical reasons) not on board with "gender fluid," et cetera.
Interesting. Two of my buddies are gay (and a couple) but we've never discussed this, so I was unaware thee was a division. It makes sense, though, since every group is divided about something.
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Originally Posted by Hapa1
Why is there so much extreme hate from you?
Don't take it personally. This poster has exhibited the same closed mind on a number of issues and groups of people.
I never suggested anyone cannot be gay. Or that they need to be hiding.
How could gays violate laws that reflect reality? I'm not understanding the premise here.
You want laws that encourage normal social relationships. What does that mean?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot
But you said "What gives you the right to decide what others should be allowed to do?".
We have decided, as a nation, as a people, that we DO have the right to decide what others should be allowed to do. I'm not responsible for this, I'm just here to tell you what actually exists and what doesn't. I get that you think the system is unfair. But its the system we have, and we think its the best one that has been conceived of so far for managing complex social issues. That's the general consensus. We've seen all the others - and they don't come close to what we have created.
I have no big issue with the laws they way they are. I never said things are unfair. We have a situation now where all people are treated the same regarding marriage. You have implied that gays are not normal. So do you want different laws that apply to them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot
It isn't MY way. Its the way of the nation and the system that has been adopted for managing the people within it.
I've never said people can't live life in the way that makes them happy. Go right ahead. Have at it.
Well you seem to want the government to step in and encourage normal social relationships which means gays are not in normal social relationships according to you. You seem to not want them to adopt kids. So don't you just want people to give live way they want. You want laws that interfere with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot
There's always going to be some limits where something might make someone happy, but its not lawful to do it. That's just the system we have. We can't account for everyone's whims - laws are inherently made for the general case, and the process for deciding what that case is, happens to be, like it or not, the process that we have right now, today. It's basically a "mob rule" system, but with some attempts at mitigating abuses levied by the majority against the minority.
But that's what we've got to work with.
What cannot be done with the law, is it being used to control what people think. Leftists tend to hate this - they have a fetish for criminalizing dissent, always have. And again, that falls into the category of we have observed all the other systems for managing societies, and ours is the best yet created...we as a people have rejected all of the others.
I am not a leftist. I am most likely more conservative than you on many issues. But I am a big supporter of civil liberties which is at the core of libertarian ideals.
And what is legal and illegal in many ways has changed over time. Like prohibition and now the changes in marijuana law. And what blacks and gays can do.
But you want this litmus test on what is normal by your definition. And you seem upset that gays can marry and call what they have is unnatural because two men or two women cannot procreate. When I stated the obvious that lots of straight couples cannot procreate for various reasons and you just ignore what I said.
So are you fine with all the laws as they stand now or would you prefer some of them change? Like gays getting married for example? Would you want that to change?
This should be a non issue for anyone who wants limited government interference in our lives. But Republicans unlike Libertarians are hypocrites on this. If its something that conflicts with the bible they are fine with the government stepping it and doing things that are the same as their religious beliefs. And its obvious that is where you are coming from on all of this.
I'll put a finer point on it: if it doesn't affect your own life, why do you care so much? Don't wanna marry someone with the same plumbing? Don't do it, then. Don't like guns? Don't have one. Don't like Thai food? Don't eat it.
Both interracial and gay marriages are considered taboo and only constitute a small percentage of overall marriages.
I'm in an interracial marriage (wife is Romanian) which means anywhere we go people will stare just a little bit longer in curiosity as opposed to a "normal" couple of the same race.
Furthermore, a black family in public may give me "the stare" as if to say they disprove of another black man marrying a non-black woman.
It doesn't matter. You must learn to be secure and comfortable in your own skin when you're in a taboo marriage.
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Originally Posted by Cantabridgienne
Marriage is "natural" either, it's a human construct. So is a pizza. Do you object to pizza, too?
Bingo, marriage is just a social construct with tax benefits. Nothing more, nothing less.
You do't need a damn contract or marriage license to love someone or take care of your kids.
Both interracial and gay marriages are considered taboo and only constitute a small percentage of overall marriages.
I'm in an interracial marriage (wife is Romanian) which means anywhere we go people will stare just a little bit longer in curiosity as opposed to a "normal" couple of the same race.
Furthermore, a black family in public may give me "the stare" as if to say they disprove of another black man marrying a non-black woman.
It doesn't matter. You must learn to be secure and comfortable in your own skin when you're in a taboo marriage.
Rock on. That's what I was alluding to. A Caucasian man toting a Latina on his arm and a couple of kids who are obviously in between provokes some stares. It's not all judgmental, but it stings some social norms and always makes going out interesting.
The wife and I play with it now and then.
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