Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I watched it just last week, and I thought it was Moore's worst film to date. I thought that it was very messy, uninteresting and unorganized, and that it spent way too much time on Moore's hometown of Flint, Michigan.
I also was surprised about how he "turned" on Obama. I think that Obama is now too conservative for Moore as he praised the ultimate extreme dingbat leftist (imo) Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez, to the point of almost worship.
I still think that Moore is an intelligent guy, but that he has just completely lost his way to the point that moderates like myself who have seen "Fahrenheit 11/9" will dismiss almost anything he has to say from now on -- unless he once again correctly predicts that another "no chance" candidate will be our next POTUS.
Last edited by katharsis; 02-18-2019 at 04:24 PM..
Yes, I know - Republicans will mock him for being overweight, and start claiming that he lies.
"Claiming" Michael Moore lies?!?!
You do realize that Moore lies a lot in his "documentaries?"
He invents events and things out of thin air. He lies, pure and simple. This is not debatable for any honest and informed person. That is not to say that he doesn't ever make good points at times, but he is a pathological liar, period.
I watched Fahrenheit 9/11 when it was playing in my hometown. I wasn't too surprised, I was the only one in the theater watching it. But I thought the movie was interesting and good. I was disgusted to find out how the Flint water situation.
You do realize that Moore lies a lot in his "documentaries?"
He invents events and things out of thin air. He lies, pure and simple. This is not debatable for any honest and informed person. That is not to say that he doesn't ever make good points at times, but he is a pathological liar, period.
Have you seen so much as one movie made by Michael Moore?
Have you seen so much as one movie made by Michael Moore?
(1) Are you honestly disputing the fact that Michael Moore lies/deceives/tells half truths repeatedly in his "documentaries?"
(2) Yes, yes I have. I have seen the following films from Moore: Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine, Sicko, Capitalism a Love Story, and Fahrenheit 9-11.
If you think that Moore doesn't lie repeatedly in his films, is it because you haven't seen them or because you are gullible?
Watched this last night on Prime and thought it was a mess. Half truths (or not enough explanation), outright lies (Trump declaring his run for president Moore claimed was a publicity stunt because Gwen Stefani made more than him as a judge on a talent show), and incorrect information (Hitler was not elected in Germany as Moore claimed).
Clarallel, it's funny how two people can watch the same documentary and come away with two different opinions of it that vary as much as yours and mine do.
I was surprised by the reaction to Obama when he travelled to Flint. At first they were happy to see him until he pulled the stunt pretending to drink from a glass of water after demanding a glass of water not a bottle of water. Was even more surprised Moore took a shot at a fellow extreme lefty.
And yes everyone, I know this is a four month old thread, however I just watched this last night.
I'm so pleased that you decided to post about this, because I think it's a worthwhile movie - even if we disagree. I'm a big movie-goer and don't mind if people disagree with me, as long as they have thoughtful, reasonable opinions. But with Moore, of course, there's the problem that Republicans just tend to dismiss him out of hand, usually starting by insulting him for his weight, then saying he's biased. But my view is that by now everyone knows about his bias going in, so no one should pretend to be surprised.
First, you're right that some MM films are a mess. He's not a meticulous strait-laced academician - he's a guy who has managed an incredible feat: Getting audiences to go out and pay to see a documentary. But even though he does often slant or mislead (sometimes just by the editing) overall he's very factual, which is why people haven't had much luck suing him.
The theory that Trump ran as a ploy to enrich himself, in a fit of pique about Stefani's salary, is really just that, a theory. I've heard him discuss it more at length, and I can't imagine any way to prove it unless someone unearths confidential emails (although Trump has said he doesn't email). But, still, whether true or not, it certainly isn't so far-fetched, considering that many people think that Trump's run began in a fit of pique when Obama mocked him publicly at the White House Correspondents Dinner, I think it was, and he does always have money on his mind.
The movie was indeed very wide-ranging (or, as you see it, a mess), but I thought it touched on some worthwhile subjects, many of which would have been worthy of a whole hour. And I hope that you like that he was willing to take a swipe at Obama (although he's not an extreme lefty)? The one thing puzzling me about your post is the reference to Hitler. Hitler indeed initially come into power in an election, and it was in Germany.
I'm a big movie-goer and don't mind if people disagree with me, as long as they have thoughtful, reasonable opinions.
Watch Debbie Melnyk's Manufacturing Dissent on Michael Moore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel
But with Moore, of course, there's the problem that Republicans just tend to dismiss him out of hand, usually starting by insulting him for his weight, then saying he's biased. But my view is that by now everyone knows about his bias going in, so no one should pretend to be surprised.
And some Democrats just dismiss his constant stream of lies and half-truths out of hand. You have yet to admit that he repeatedly and blatantly lies in this thread.
I freely admit that he makes some good points - it is too bad that this is diminished with lies. Because he lies so much millions of people tune him out quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel
Getting audiences to go out and pay to see a documentary.
By definition most of his films are not documentaries.
Quote:
: of, relating to, or employing documentation (see documentation sense 2) in literature or art
broadly : factual, objective
a documentary film of the war
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel
But even though he does often slant or mislead (sometimes just by the editing) overall he's very factual
You have low standards for Moore and honesty, because you agree with his message.
You wouldn't let Trump get away with Moore's kind of BS.
Let's take Roger and Me....
-He lies about not getting an interview with Smith the CEO
-He lies about the union having only 3 people show up to protest and makes it look like he is a one man band protesting GM's closure of some plants in Flint
-He lies about there being a national TV townhall special with ABC's Nightline on Flint
-He lies about the fictional TV townhall getting canceled due to a laid off auto worker stealing the satellite truck
-He lied that he had his microphone cut off at GM shareholders meeting by Roger Smith so he couldn't ask a question...that was a perfectly spliced in lie
-He lies about the timing of events to make AutoWorld look like it was to save Flint's collapse when it was built before its collapse
-He lies and makes deceptions about GM's finances...GM actually had poured billions...yes billions of dollars into Flint during the 1980s
-He lies about the Reagan pizza dinner having a guy steal the cash register
-And constant chronology and taking people out of context problems.
Had Moore looked at Flint honestly and objectively there might have been a useful political message. Instead he does a hit job filled with lies that divides people and puts himself on a pedestal. If you want to say that this film is mostly honest because "GM closing plants = Flint struggles" well I shake my head in amazement and would invite you to look in the mirror the next time you are upset that Trump supporters shrug off lies.
Watch Debbie Melnyk's Manufacturing Dissent on Michael Moore.
And some Democrats just dismiss his constant stream of lies and half-truths out of hand. You have yet to admit that he repeatedly and blatantly lies in this thread.
I freely admit that he makes some good points - it is too bad that this is diminished with lies. Because he lies so much millions of people tune him out quickly.
By definition most of his films are not documentaries.
You have low standards for Moore and honesty, because you agree with his message.
You wouldn't let Trump get away with Moore's kind of BS.
Let's take Roger and Me....
-He lies about not getting an interview with Smith the CEO
-He lies about the union having only 3 people show up to protest and makes it look like he is a one man band protesting GM's closure of some plants in Flint
-He lies about there being a national TV townhall on Flint
-He lies about the fictional TV townhall getting canceled due to a laid off auto worker stealing the satellite truck
-He lied that he had his microphone cut off at GM shareholders meeting by Roger Smith so he couldn't ask a question...that was a perfectly spliced in lie
-He lies about the timing of events to make AutoWorld look like it was to save Flint's collapse when it was built before its collapse
-He lies and makes deceptions about GM's finances...GM actually had poured billions...yes billions of dollars into Flint during the 1980s
-And constant chronology and taking people out of context problems.
Had Moore looked at Flint honestly and objectively there might have been a useful political message. Instead he does a hit job filled with lies that divides people and puts himself on a pedestal. If you want to say that this film is mostly honest because "GM closing plants = Flint struggles" well I shake my head in amazement and would invite you to look in the mirror the next time you are upset that Trump supporters shrug off lies.
what amazes me is that had moore put a lot more REAL truth in his movies, and got rid of the lies and political leanings, his movies would have been far more powerful in their message than they were. and he would not have been slammed for the movies he did make.
Micheal Moore is a socialist, a product of the most miserable rust belt environment in the USA, Flint Michigan. His experience coming from that place likely embittered him. Of course like most residents of that place he never looked at how the excessive demands of the union led to Michigan’s economic fate, he instead was taught to blame capitalism and the Big 3 for what happened. His movies and leftist statements are a reflection of beliefs that are commonplace in his hometown...Soviet Flint.
like other documentary creators with an agenda, moore puts enough truth and half truths into his documentaries take make them seem credible. the problem is that he also puts in a lot of lies and faulty conclusions as well. michael moore has no credibility except to those with an agenda that mirrors his.
I watched several of Moore's documentary's and many if not all of his points can be balanced with a well thought out, none emotional counter-argument. He has an agenda, that's fine. People take one sided documentaries as gospel too often without seeing the other side.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
