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View Poll Results: Is private property open for all to use, at will?
Yes 2 1.74%
No 113 98.26%
Voters: 115. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-16-2018, 10:45 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,999 posts, read 44,804,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
They changed the rules after you purchased the property?
No. It has never been a law. Nor has it ever been a recorded public use easement on any privately owned littoral property.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:47 AM
 
46,946 posts, read 25,979,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
That's not the rule.

The rule is that there are registered public rights of way that cannot be obstructed, these are either legacy, or new routes can be created by the current property owners endowment, or by a kind if adverse possession method where over the past 20 years the land owner has not formally objected to the use of that route.

There is also the right to roam on uncultivated lands adjacent to these rights of way, this does not include forests or woods unless they are common ownership or owned by the forestry commission (who have endowed their use for recreational purposes).

Whatever you were doing probably was trespass, but the land owner did not know, or did not care.
FWIW, Norway and Sweden have full Right to Roam - you can hike and camp (for one night) on uncultivated land anywhere. Hefty fines for campfires in summer or leaving trash behind, as it should be.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:48 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,359 posts, read 60,546,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
It's a statewide problem, here, and afflicts other coastal states, as well. Not just local.
I have to ask what state you're in. Riparian law is convoluted and even contradictory in a lot of states.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:50 AM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,218,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
What say you all?

Backyards? Pools in backyards? Etc.? Community property, to be used by any and all at will? Or private property?
No, I own it for me to use. Period.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:51 AM
 
46,946 posts, read 25,979,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
No. It has never been a law. Nor has it ever been a recorded public use easement on any privately owned littoral property.
You really are very coy about the circumstances.

So let me guess: The practice was well established, you knew it well when you took over the property, and now you're looking around for a legal justification to match your quest for changing things so they are more to your liking. Am I much off?

Sounds like a job for a legal professional, have you retained one?
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:54 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,999 posts, read 44,804,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
I have to ask what state you're in. Riparian law is convoluted and even contradictory in a lot of states.
It's not riparian. It's littoral. The state is NC.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:55 AM
 
12,003 posts, read 11,894,188 times
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Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding or ignorance of easements in this thread.

Easements allow owners of land-locked property to reach their land by making their way across neighboring privately owned land - I have one, myself, on my rural getaway, or rather, my neighbors granted me one. It's basically a short unpaved footpath that cuts across their property to mine from the end of the road where we both park. Neither I nor my neighbors, who own the actual land, have had any problems since they kindly granted it, but if I ever sell my own adjacent property, the easement goes along with it for the benefit of future owners. Or if my neighbors sell their property, the new owners would still have to allow access to my land through theirs.

Easements or sometimes state statutes also allow access to old family cemeteries (usually for descendants and/or other relatives of those buried there) in remote areas. State laws vary, but almost all states not only allow access to family cemeteries but guarantee such access for family members.

Laws concerning water access also vary from state to state - some say the water is state-owned in navigable streams and so may be navigated by anyone in a boat, but that same individual would trespass if their feet touched the shallow stream bed or the adjacent shore. Laws concerning shallow, non-navigable streams usually do not allow public access without property owner permission, but again, the water in such streams is considered state-owned and the stream bed belongs to the landowner. Just - if you can't float a canoe or kayak in it, it's not publicly accessible. Similarly, laws concerning beach access can seem rather peculiar, as they often involve high and low tide marks, sand dunes, and so on.

If anyone is considering purchasing rural property or land along water or containing an old cemetery, they would do well to check out access issues first.
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:57 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,999 posts, read 44,804,275 times
Reputation: 13696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
You really are very coy about the circumstances.

So let me guess: The practice was well established, you knew it well when you took over the property, and now you're looking around for a legal justification to match your quest for changing things so they are more to your liking. Am I much off?
Local "practice" is superseded by 5th Amendment just compensation requirements. US Constitution Supremacy Clause.

Pay me just compensation for the land taken from me for public use, and thereby assume responsibility for the maintenance of that land including trash pickup, etc. We don't even have any lifeguards out here, and dozens of trespassers drown every year. The latest is a young man from Ohio in his 30s.

https://www.daytondailynews.com/news...sz5LVb848ASvI/
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Old 10-16-2018, 10:59 AM
 
46,946 posts, read 25,979,166 times
Reputation: 29440
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Local "practice" is superseded by 5th Amendment just compensation requirements...
In other words, you knew when you acquired the property. Sorry, not sorry.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
8,278 posts, read 6,273,469 times
Reputation: 6681
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
FWIW, Norway and Sweden have full Right to Roam - you can hike and camp (for one night) on uncultivated land anywhere. Hefty fines for campfires in summer or leaving trash behind, as it should be.
Yeah the UK specifically England and Wales are far more restrictive in public use of private property than most of Europe even with the expansions of public footpath/bridleway and right to roam laws over the last 20 years or so. In fact there's chunks that are more restrictive than the US.

Just correcting the poster I was replying to, common misconception often resulting in Farmer Palmer chasing a bunch of tourists in Hawaiian shirts and flip-flops off "'is, laaahnd", shotgun cradled. Which I've actually seen in the Lakes, but the farmer wasn't called Palmer. The assumption is actually a big problem, because it makes landowners less likely to permit crossing their unused property sections from frustration and concerns of damage.
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