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View Poll Results: What's your opinion regarding nationalism?
liberal: nationalism is obsolete and we should move away from it. 6 6.25%
liberal: nationalism was always just a ploy of the ruling class. 8 8.33%
liberal: nationalism has been beneficial, and we should keep it. 1 1.04%
conservative: nationalism is obsolete and we should move away from it. 1 1.04%
conservative: nationalism was always just a ploy of the ruling class. 1 1.04%
conservative: nationalism has been beneficial, and we should keep it. 35 36.46%
independent: nationalism is obsolete and we should move away from it. 4 4.17%
independent: nationalism was always just a ploy of the ruling class. 11 11.46%
independent: nationalism has been beneficial, and we should keep it. 24 25.00%
other (explain below) 5 5.21%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-29-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,241,062 times
Reputation: 2590

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“Nationalism does nothing but teach you to hate people you never met, and to take pride in accomplishments you had no part in.”

― Doug Stanhope

Sums it up quite nicely
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,010,275 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by ARaider08 View Post
Sounds like an argument over semantics.

"Nationalist", as a term, has been pretty basterdized in political discourse so it's resolved to being a dog whistle rather than a philosophy of national pride.

"Dog whistle: " you edit something that was said by someone you don't like, then proclaim that the first version was a 'dog whistle,' and your version was what was really meant. In other words, stuffing words into the mouth of your interlocutor.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:04 PM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,503,247 times
Reputation: 2737
Voted: independent: nationalism has been beneficial, and we should keep it.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
14,483 posts, read 11,280,665 times
Reputation: 9002
No it's not a bad thing. Unless you are talking about Germany in 1939.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:09 PM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,503,247 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
“Nationalism does nothing but teach you to hate people you never met, and to take pride in accomplishments you had no part in.”

― Doug Stanhope

Sums it up quite nicely
It's a dumb, manipulative quote at best.

Is it not possible to be proud of your family and be good friends with your neighbors at the same time?
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,360,513 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
I don't follow you. Explain, please?
Nationalism is intertwined with the concept of a nation-State...obviously. It decrees that a State has the following values/principles: X, Y, Z and then the people must subscribe or strive to that standard. It sacrifices the individual for the collective.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
6,061 posts, read 2,010,275 times
Reputation: 2167
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Nationalism is intertwined with the concept of a nation-State...obviously. It decrees that a State has the following values/principles: X, Y, Z and then the people must subscribe or strive to that standard. It sacrifices the individual for the collective.
But why is it not possible to have a)individualist-oriented nation states (e.g. 19th cent US, at least to some extent), or b)collectivist nation states (e.g. the USSR)?

In other words, nationalism would sacrifice 'the individual for the collective' in varying amounts. For the 19th century US it was a small amount(at least for white males), for the USSR a big amount. I doubt that there has ever been a human society where there was not some degree of sacrifice, and I don't know that it would be possible.
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:19 PM
 
Location: San Jose
2,594 posts, read 1,241,062 times
Reputation: 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanst530 View Post
It's a dumb, manipulative quote at best.

Is it not possible to be proud of your family and be good friends with your neighbors at the same time?
And what do you do if their is a fallout between your family and your good neighbors? Do you attempt to make peace between the two groups or do your take your family's side even if they are in the wrong and go and kill your neighbors? The later is what nationalist do.

"Nationalism is an infantile thing. It is the measles of mankind."

Albert Einstein
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:21 PM
 
7,447 posts, read 2,832,835 times
Reputation: 4922
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenFresno View Post
“Nationalism does nothing but teach you to hate people you never met, and to take pride in accomplishments you had no part in.”

― Doug Stanhope

Sums it up quite nicely
Apt
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Old 10-29-2018, 12:24 PM
 
2,830 posts, read 2,503,247 times
Reputation: 2737
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Nationalism is intertwined with the concept of a nation-State...obviously. It decrees that a State has the following values/principles: X, Y, Z and then the people must subscribe or strive to that standard. It sacrifices the individual for the collective.
Yeah okay, good luck fending off advanced nation-state militaries with your haphazard society of 'individuals'.
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