Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Be realistic. Deporting 13+ million people is logistically impossible and economically unfeasible.
The choice is between leaving the status quo or give them a path to living here legally. I would choose the latter while disincentivizing anyone else from coming here illegally by both (a) making it near impossible to find work here for illegals by imposing severe penalties on employers who hire illegals; and (b) making it easier to come here legally.
No illegal should have guaranteed sanctuary. No illegal should be 100% confident that they could not be deported at any moment. That's the message Trump is sending when you periodically hear about deportation of an illegal who has been here ten years and is a "pillar of the community". There should be no statute of limitations because every day you are here, you are continuing to offend.
We don't have the resources to deport them all but we don't need to. Make it enough hell to be an illegal here and most will self-deport.
Yes, disincentivizing being here is crucial. And yet, liberals oppose most of the measures that disincentivize them coming here, like ending birthright citizenship to offspring of illegals or providing sanctuary to illegals. That is what this whole thread is about. Taking away one of the big incentives to many illegals. Just the opposite, liberals keep adding incentive after incentive to make it easy to be an illegal here. Issue them driver licenses. Provide hospital medical care. Extending child tax credits. Providing free education with free school breakfasts and lunches. Creating sanctuary cities with protected job centers. Providing government forms and documents in Spanish. Counting illegals in the census.
It's very simple, you can pass a law for each one of the 5 points. In the case of point 1, it would require a constitutional amendment, but it should be done as it should have bipartisan appeal.
You are correct, #1 would require a Constitutional Amendment. Not going to happen, be realistic.
SCOTUS already considered, and rejected, #2 because it violates the 14th Amendment.
Regarding #3, I suppose a law could be passed requiring hospitals to detain anyone who cannot prove their citizenship and granting doctors and nurses Federal police powers, but it would seem to me that it doesn't make for good public policy.
The latter half of my post addresses your concerns about 13 million more coming later. Make it easier to come here legally while eliminating the job market for illegals.
What does that mean? If your plan is to simply exchange 1 million legals and 1 million illegal immigrants today with 2 million legal immigrants tomorrow, no dice. That amplifies the problem. The peoples of other countries do not have any inherent right to come here. We have the right to say enough. We don't need any more destitute coming here to be net users of social services. A poor American can't immigrate to Mexico or Honduras or Guatemala. They welcome American immigrants - provided they bring their own money to support themselves and will not be working or drawing public benefits.
No illegal should have guaranteed sanctuary. No illegal should be 100% confident that they could not be deported at any moment. That's the message Trump is sending when you periodically hear about deportation of an illegal who has been here ten years and is a "pillar of the community". There should be no statute of limitations because every day you are here, you are continuing to offend.
We don't have the resources to deport them all but we don't need to. Make it enough hell to be an illegal here and most will self-deport.
Yes, disincentivizing being here is crucial. And yet, liberals oppose most of the measures that disincentivize them coming here, like ending birthright citizenship to offspring of illegals or providing sanctuary to illegals. That is what this whole thread is about. Taking away one of the big incentives to many illegals. Just the opposite, liberals keep adding incentive after incentive to make it easy to be an illegal here. Issue them driver licenses. Provide hospital medical care. Extending child tax credits. Providing free education with free school breakfasts and lunches. Creating sanctuary cities with protected job centers. Providing government forms and documents in Spanish. Counting illegals in the census.
Stacking it higher and deeper does not advance your case.
Birth Right citizenship is constitutional. There is no where near the almost unanimous public support to change it. I do not personally support birth tourism. Seems silly to let the transient child receive it. But that is still what the 14th says.
The illegal are far too well established to be removed by intimidation. And there is little chance it will be attempted. The chambers of commerce have proven very good at preventing any really hard employer sanctions and will continue to do so. Might make it a little tougher but that is about it. And actually all that will do is mostly drive the illegal workers to the black market where almost half of them are now. And that will as well further undermine or tax systems.
No illegal should have guaranteed sanctuary. No illegal should be 100% confident that they could not be deported at any moment. That's the message Trump is sending when you periodically hear about deportation of an illegal who has been here ten years and is a "pillar of the community". There should be no statute of limitations because every day you are here, you are continuing to offend.
We don't have the resources to deport them all but we don't need to. Make it enough hell to be an illegal here and most will self-deport.
Yes, disincentivizing being here is crucial. And yet, liberals oppose most of the measures that disincentivize them coming here, like ending birthright citizenship to offspring of illegals or providing sanctuary to illegals. That is what this whole thread is about. Taking away one of the big incentives to many illegals. Just the opposite, liberals keep adding incentive after incentive to make it easy to be an illegal here. Issue them driver licenses. Provide hospital medical care. Extending child tax credits. Providing free education with free school breakfasts and lunches. Creating sanctuary cities with protected job centers. Providing government forms and documents in Spanish. Counting illegals in the census.
Be realistic. We aren't going to end birthright citizenship. There is no way you are going to get 2/3 of the House and Senate to support a Constitutional amendment. Nor are we going to deport 13 million illegals because we can't and, even if we could, it would wreck the economy.
The rest of the stuff you listed seems kind of small beer. No one is immigrating to the US to get a drivers license or because they write documents in Spanish. You've just presented a list of small things politicians have done because they are realistic about who is here in the US. Given that the overwhelming majority of these immigrants are not getting deported, they have adopted a policy to act practically instead of punitively.
Take driving for example. Illegal aliens are here and they are going to drive vehicles. Isn't it better to make sure that they get the proper licensing, training, and insurance before doing so? Sticking your head in the sand about illegal immigrants and their driving habits seems to be a worse option than giving them a path to licensing because 99 times out of 100 they will choose the legal path when it is made available to them but will revert to the illegal option if it isn't.
The immigration system was wrecked well over 10 years ago. The actual stupidity that wrecked it was almost 40 years ago.
It is simply the idiocy of the right that the problem still exists. And no you cannot double the immigration force you have to quadruple it at least and it would still take 20 years or more and it likely would not happen. When the social eruption occurs and vast sections of big cities are lost the fondness for the effort will go away.
Even simple things the right cannot understand. In order to file asylum the person must enter the US and file it with the immigration authorities. Once in the US they cannot be send back outside because the Mexicans do not have to accept non Mexicans. So the asylum seeker is ours unless we want to ship them out which will likely require a court hearing which will not occur for months.
And what the left cannot understand is that we intend to change those asinine policies that have put us in this place. They should have to file their asylum prior to coming here. Any court hearings can be done same day. One could say that Mexico, by not having prevented their entry at their southern border and having offered them asylum, has accepted these asylum seekers. It is us that does not have to accept non Americans from Mexico.
What does that mean? If your plan is to simply exchange 1 million legals and 1 million illegal immigrants today with 2 million legal immigrants tomorrow, no dice. That amplifies the problem. The peoples of other countries do not have any inherent right to come here. We have the right to say enough. We don't need any more destitute coming here to be net users of social services. A poor American can't immigrate to Mexico or Honduras or Guatemala. They welcome American immigrants - provided they bring their own money to support themselves and will not be working or drawing public benefits.
Immigrants, including illegal immigrants, are net contributors to social services.
Nobody is suggesting that ending birthright citizenship be retroactive and revoking existing citizenship.
And lack of citizenship absolutely does not free one of debt or tax obligations. Contractual debt has nothing to do with citizenship and government taxes on property and wages here apply to everyone. If you take out a mortgage or car loan or any other private loan, your obligation to repay the debt has absolutely nothing to do with your citizenship status. Do you think illegals not have to pay their debts? As for taxes, any income earned in America is subject to U.S. taxes regardless of your citizenship. Do you think H1Bs and foreign guest workers don't pay income taxes?
The only "debt obligations" that would be lost are the ability to impose U.S. taxes on income earned in another country. So if anchor baby Jose born in Texas goes back to Mexico and starts a successful company, we won't be able to tax him. Just as we can't with baby Juan that was born in Veracruz. No big loss because how many anchor babies grow up, leave the country, and make lots of money elsewhere that we tax?
Quote:
And lack of citizenship absolutely does not free one of debt or tax obligations.
It does for the u.s. expats who other wise have to pay the fed to exit.
Quote:
No big loss because how many anchor babies grow up, leave the country, and make lots of money elsewhere that we tax?
It would be interesting to find out wouldn't it? However, the u.s. doesn't track those who were born here and left, even if they remain a u.s. citizen, and take up residence in a foreign country. One might find an estimate by going to the World Bank data.
Ending birthright though, would definitely help those that are u.s. expats. I'm sure they would be thrilled to be free of u.s. debt obligation.
Immigrants, including illegal immigrants, are net contributors to social services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia
Pure nonsense.
It's true ...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
