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Apparently, my American citizenship may be called into question or just revoked outright when tRump issues his executive order nullifying the 14th Amendmendment. Sad but true, my Mother was still a Swiss National when I was born and my Father was still overseas at the time. Guess I was an "anchor baby" long before the term ever came into common usage. Will Trump's EO be retroactive? It's quite possible that it well may be. Just look at the plight of the Dreamers. Like the Dreamers, the US is the only country I can really call home. I have visited Switzerland often over the years, and I actually like it quite well, but not THAT well. It is not the country of my birth.
I am like many of the Dreamers in that I do not speak the language of my Mother's (soon to be mine?) native country. I know German, but the Swiss speak a dialect called Schweizerdeutsch which is completely incomprehensible to non-native speakers - even German ones. That problem aside, I wonder where the Swiss government will resettle me when the time comes. "Mutti's" family comes from a small farming village (named Flühli) high in the Alps. The primary employment is either with the tourist industry or on one of the many diary farms extending into the high mountains of Switzerland. I might be qualified to watch over the herds of Swiss brown cows in the summer. Maybe.
It will be difficult to transfer the degrees I earned here to the Swiss employment market. A master's degree from an American University is equivalent to only a Bachelor's degree from a Swiss University. And what about all the years when I faithfully paid my taxes - especially my payroll taxes that were supposed to go to my Social Security and Medicare when I can no longer work a full time job? I suppose that as a Swiss national, I'm just shart out of luck. Will I end up on the Swiss equivalent of welfare? That would really suck.
But what would suck worse is if the Swiss government refused to take me in. Then what?
Of course, this entire scenario is completely absurd - I think. Still, what's the difference between me and any other person born in the US to a foreign national? Where does one draw the line? I didn't ask to be born in the US and now Trump wants to kick me and other folks just like me out of the country. Think about it.
I am not for open borders, BTW. But somewhere in all this mess, there has to be a rational policy drawn up and passed into law by Congress. After all, we are a nation of immigrants. No, we cannot allow in every person on earth who is seeking a better life for themselves and their families. Yet to simply toss people aside as if they were yesterday's garbage is wrong as well. Playing games with the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution is simply election time fear mongering. It creates a zillion problems for everyone it solves.
We need an immigration policy that attracts the best and the brightest. But we also need to give asylum seekers a chance, as well. We need a strong border with laws that are equal for all. This is going to be anything but easy to come up with immigration laws that are humane yet strict and which protect our borders against our enemies and the millions of desperate people who try to gain access to our country. But there's not a doubt in my mind that this can be accomplished, for America has accomplished many things that once were deemed impossible.
The ravings of a crazy man who spends all his time on Twitter should not even be given the time of day in today's United States. We need solutions - not rabble rousing.
And should I get deported, DM me, and I'll send you some Swiss Chocolate.
Breathe deeply and slowly, pull your pants back up.
He's just trying to slow the Caravan up a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro69
Oh man...you had my interest until the 15th word. Not necessary the word but how it was spelled.
Bye.
I know huh?
Waa! Not My Pwesident! Waa!
A grown adult too. A Western Sloper at that.
Let me respell that... Not my pWesident! Waa!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider
I knew he was fake even beofre drilling down like you did. He is dripping with Democrat talking points with I-am-not-for-open-borders line thrown in for good measure.
She.
Show some manners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy
What a stupid thread. Ugh.
You guys are harsh.
We're all gonna have to get along again someday.
I used to not even be able to stomach the thread titles in here during the W-Obama years.
Now I can stomach about half of them... Barely, bWah!
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntrepidShepherd
Hey man. No need for synonyms when the original is just fine (and not boring). Look.... first you said "delete", then you said "change the meaning so as it might as well be deleted". Those are not synonyms - thats called "moving the goal posts"
In my humble opinion there is no attempt to change meanings but rather an attempt to properly define a problematic term. The irony is liberal types have no issue trying to change the meanings of words in the 2nd amendment when it suits their goals but vehemently reject that there could be an issue in the 14th.
There ya go.
Give em an inch, they'll take a mile. The Founding Fathers knew their stuff afterall, huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Why would you write the Swiss consulate? Why not take a trip to Europe, walk into Switzerland, riot and demand that they accept you as a citizen, communicate in English, teach your kids for free, offer you a free home and health care? Seems to be the accepted approach for those that want to come here. I'm sure those progressive Swiss will be at least as accommodating as this nation is.
Huh, cost me 60 bucks or Francs or Swiss francs just to drive into the country from France when I was there about 21 years ago. Bought lunch when we crossed the border, another 60 bucks. Bought a watch, Swiss Military, 180 bucks. Ok, that may have been worth it, maybe not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1
It matters because you framed your initial assertion as:
Your father being overseas would not be treated as being overseas if he was serving in the military at the time. You were born on US soil and claimed by a father who was a US citizen who was considered to be on US soil. By ANY definition out there you are a US citizen.
You had an American citizen parent. He has absolutely no desire to kick out you or anyone like you.
Hey man. No need for synonyms when the original is just fine (and not boring). Look.... first you said "delete", then you said "change the meaning so as it might as well be deleted". Those are not synonyms - thats called "moving the goal posts"
In my humble opinion there is no attempt to change meanings but rather an attempt to properly define a problematic term. The irony is liberal types have no issue trying to change the meanings of words in the 2nd amendment when it suits their goals but vehemently reject that there could be an issue in the 14th.
When in trouble, when in doubt, run in circles; scream and shout. When I posted about using synonyms for the term "drama queen," I meant drama queen. I was making a joke, and my list of 6 or 8 words that could stand in for drama queen should have made it evident that I was not discussing the word "delete."
The above foolishness aside, I would assert that the majority of conservatives along with Trump himself wish to specify to federal agencies that the children of noncitizens are not citizens. I have mentioned this already in a previous post. If such an interpretation becomes the law of the land, it will indeed turn the 14th Amendment as it is now understood completely upside down and do away with birthright citizenship. You think I'm moving the goal posts and I think you are having fun with double speak. Perhaps we should just agree to disagree and call it a day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake
Why would you write the Swiss consulate? Why not take a trip to Europe, walk into Switzerland, riot and demand that they accept you as a citizen, communicate in English, teach your kids for free, offer you a free home and health care? Seems to be the accepted approach for those that want to come here. I'm sure those progressive Swiss will be at least as accommodating as this nation is.
Seriously? What makes you think that Switzerland is progressive? The Swiss practice what is called direct democracy which means that the people as a whole vote on important initiatives, thus bypassing the politicians who can be influenced by all sorts of things other than the good of the country. In 2014 the Swiss people voted in the Federal popular initiative"against mass immigration." Like much of Europe, Switzerland has been flooded with migrants (mainly fleeing conditions in N. Africa), and the Swiss people became fed up and voted to sharply limit immigration.
Were I to buy a plane ticket to Zurich, I could get a tourist visa (usually good for 90 days). But if I over-stayed my visa and decided that it would be cool to hang out in say - Geneva, the Swiss Cantonal (state) police would pick me up before I could even say "lederhosen." I would then probably be briefly jailed prior to being kicked out of the country. The Swiss are extremely conservative on this issue, and I can't say that I blame them.
Believe it or not, I believe that the US should work toward immigration laws similar to those of Switzerland. My concerns about US immigration is largely based on issues of humanitarian treatment of the Dreamers and compassion for asylum seekers. Let's take care of the issues that are staring us in the face right now and then work toward strikcter and more realistic immigration policies in the years to come.
BTW, non-citizens cannot just walk across the US border and POOF! They're instantly citizens. Also, most immigrants and especially illegal ones are not instantly given housing and health care. There are all sorts of rules and procedures for Federal safety net programs that your pal Trump doesn't bother to mention because:
A) He is woefully uninformed and/or misinformed as to how these programs work and his ignorance bothers him not at all since he just readily lies about everything on the face of the earth.
B) Trump is using xenophobia and jingoistic slogans to stoke fears among his base so that he and the rest of the Republican party can win more elections.
The American people should follow the Swiss example and have a national referendum on immigration policy , bypassing Trump and every other crooked politician on both sides completely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbones
The inner workings of the mind of a NPC is fascinating.
Whatza NPC?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1
It matters because you framed your initial assertion as:
Your father being overseas would not be treated as being overseas if he was serving in the military at the time. You were born on US soil and claimed by a father who was a US citizen who was considered to be on US soil. By ANY definition out there you are a US citizen.
You had an American citizen parent. He has absolutely no desire to kick out you or anyone like you.
Let's not go around in circles about the niceties of being an American Service member ordered to fight in N. Korea in 1951. Life is too short to do all that Googling.
I agree that CURRENTLY I meet the definition of an American citizen. The problem is whether the 14th Amendment will end up being interpreted such that a child born on American soil must have BOTH parents who are American citizens. This notion has been bandied about here on CD and I've seen mention made of that possibility from other sources, as well.
If this is indeed how the law is interpreted, then what's the difference between me or others like me of white European ancestry and those whose parents have darker colored skins and came from countries that your president has rudely denounced as third world CD-Won't-Let-Me-Post-The-Word countries?
This hatred and fear of people who are not white as the driven snow, whose first language is not English, and who are desperate asylum seekers fleeing cruel dictatorships and an ocean of crime back home, AND who only want to find a job and work as hard as they possibly can to give their children a better future must cease.
We are the United States of America and we are better than this.
Let's not go around in circles about the niceties of being an American Service member ordered to fight in N. Korea in 1951. Life is too short to do all that Googling.
What googling? My husband is a retired JAG officer. US service members are considered to be on US soil when assigned to an overseas billet - been that way since the Rough Riders days. No one considers you anything but a US citizen, you have dreamed up some ridiculous false narrative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler
I agree that CURRENTLY I meet the definition of an American citizen. The problem is whether the 14th Amendment will end up being interpreted such that a child born on American soil must have BOTH parents who are American citizens. This notion has been bandied about here on CD and I've seen mention made of that possibility from other sources, as well.
They are not going to take away anyone’s citizenship retroactively. They definitely aren’t going to take it away from a child born on US soil with an American citizen parent who was serving his country overseas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler
If this is indeed how the law is interpreted, then what's the difference between me or others like me of white European ancestry and those whose parents have darker colored skins and came from countries that your president has rudely denounced as third world CD-Won't-Let-Me-Post-The-Word countries?
There is no difference, if they too are born on American soil with at least one American citizen parent. Color or country of origin is immaterial.
Also, hate to break it to you, since you haven’t renounced your US citizenship and requested that Swiss citizenship yet, Trump is your president, too - he isn’t just my president.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler
This hatred and fear of people who are not white as the driven snow...
I’m darker than 90% or more of the people trying to immigrate here, so kindly lose that narrative.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler
...whose first language is not English,...
The issue isn’t that their first language isn’t English, the problem is when they don’t learn English
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler
....and who are desperate asylum seekers fleeing cruel dictatorships and an ocean of crime back home, AND....
Then why did they refuse the offer of asylum, especially given that they were offered asylum in country that speaks their language and that’s culture is closer to their own? Clearly they aren’t that desperate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler
....who only want to find a job and work as hard as they possibly can to give their children a better future must cease.
Serking a job is not grounds for asylum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler
We are the United States of America and we are better than this.
Oh, please. We do not have unlimited resources and what we do have needs to be directed towards our own citizens.
__________________
When I post in bold red that is moderator action and, per the TOS, can only be discussed through Direct Message.
Love your post. And how lucky that you have such a wonderful country to be banished to.
Perhaps you can use your Swiss/German to try to remind Trump that it's not so long ago that his grandfather was an immigrant, fleeing a situation in his own home country. And, as an upright citizen, Trump's grandfather then opened a whorehouse in America.
And what about all the years when I faithfully paid my taxes - especially my payroll taxes that were supposed to go to my Social Security and Medicare when I can no longer work a full time job? I suppose that as a Swiss national, I'm just shart out of luck. Will I end up on the Swiss equivalent of welfare? That would really suck.
I don't know, you'd probably make more a month than you'll get from Social Security. The Swiss probably take care of their people (plus you wouldn't have to pay some high deductible once Medicare is gutted by the GOP)
Apparently, my American citizenship may be called into question or just revoked outright when tRump issues his executive order nullifying the 14th Amendmendment. Sad but true, my Mother was still a Swiss National when I was born and my Father was still overseas at the time. Guess I was an "anchor baby" long before the term ever came into common usage. Will Trump's EO be retroactive? It's quite possible that it well may be. Just look at the plight of the Dreamers. Like the Dreamers, the US is the only country I can really call home.
Unlike the "dreamers" you are the child of a U.S. citizen. Your father, as a U.S citizen, had the right to pass his citizenship on to his children even if he happened to be outside of the country when his child was born. That is not the sort of "birthright citizenship" that is being questioned here.
Breathe deeply and slowly, pull your pants back up.
He's just trying to slow the Caravan up a bit.
No worries. This cowgirl doesn't pull down her pants for just anyone. And if the Donald tried to grab me by the - well, you know - he would be one extremely sorry old man. There's more than one way to come up with a plate of Rocky Mountain Oysters!
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog
I know huh?
Waa! Not My Pwesident! Waa!
A grown adult too. A Western Sloper at that.
Let me respell that... Not my pWesident! Waa!
I write the name as tRump just to irritate the folks on the opposite side of the divide. Works like a charm, doesn't it?
And you know very well that our current president* LOST the popular vote by at least 3 million votes. Not only is he not MY president*, he is not anyone else's president* either. This is a democracy, remember? The people vote for the candidates and the one that gets the most votes wins. Except in the good old US of A where we have this crazy thing called the Electoral College.
Alexander Hamilton and a number of the other founding fathers feared that the American people in their raw new country - often isolated from one another and the world in general - would lack the information and the plain old political savvy to vote for the best candidate to stand at the helm of our country. Fearing interference from the European Monarchies, Hamilton devised a plan where we the people would not vote directly for our president, but instead vote for "men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice." (Alexander Hamilton, FEDERALIST PAPERS NO 68).
Simply put, the common citizen was considered unable to vote for the best candidate, so a small group of men of wealth and privilege would carry out the selection process instead. In other words, "Not OUR president."
Finally, you need to listen again to Brooks' and Dunn's final album. Remember? "Cowgirls don't cry," nor do they go "Waa!" If you don't believe me, just ask Reba.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGowdog
You guys are harsh.
We're all gonna have to get along again someday.
I used to not even be able to stomach the thread titles in here during the W-Obama years.
Now I can stomach about half of them... Barely, bWah!
True. I am stunned by all the meanies who simply can't seem to understand that my post was written tongue in cheek - at least in part. I cried myself to sleep last night and vowed that from this day on, I would only post in the Colorado Forum where folks (other than the Texans and Californians) are much more hospitable. You and I even mostly agree over there. Which I appreciate, BTW. You are proof that even conservatives can be human. There may be hope for our country yet.
Obviously, I went back on my resolution, so in case anyone is worried, I'll still be around poking fun at everyone. Remember you can always put me on ignore until I get deported, although I think I could get on CD even from Switzerland.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 11-02-2018 at 04:28 AM..
Reason: This is not a chat thread
I write the name as tRump just to irritate the folks on the opposite side of the divide. Works like a charm, doesn't it?
And you know very well that our current president* LOST the popular vote by at least 3 million votes. Not only is he not MY president*, he is not anyone else's president* either. This is a democracy, remember? The people vote for the candidates and the one that gets the most votes wins. Except in the good old US of A where we have this crazy thing called the Electoral College.
Alexander Hamilton and a number of the other founding fathers feared that the American people in their raw new country - often isolated from one another and the world in general - would lack the information and the plain old political savvy to vote for the best candidate to stand at the helm of our country. Fearing interference from the European Monarchies, Hamilton devised a plan where we the people would not vote directly for our president, but instead vote for "men most capable of analyzing the qualities adapted to the station, and acting under circumstances favorable to deliberation, and to a judicious combination of all the reasons and inducements which were proper to govern their choice." (Alexander Hamilton, FEDERALIST PAPERS NO 68).
Simply put, the common citizen was considered unable to vote for the best candidate, so a small group of men of wealth and privilege would carry out the selection process instead. In other words, "Not OUR president."
Finally, you need to listen again to Brooks' and Dunn's final album. Remember? "Cowgirls don't cry," nor do they go "Waa!" If you don't believe me, just ask Reba.
Indeed.
Although I have become used to other posters thinking that I am of the male persuasion. I suppose it's due to the "Rambler" in my user name. I probably should have called myself "Calamity Jane" or if I really wanted to enrage the conservatives here, "Hillary Clinton."
True. I am stunned by all the meanies who simply can't seem to understand that my post was written tongue in cheek - at least in part. I cried myself to sleep last night and vowed that from this day on, I would only post in the Colorado Forum where folks (other than the Texans and Californians) are much more hospitable. You and I even mostly agree over there. Which I appreciate, BTW. You are proof that even conservatives can be human. There may be hope for our country yet.
Obviously, I went back on my resolution, so in case anyone is worried, I'll still be around poking fun at everyone. Remember you can always put me on ignore until I get deported, although I think I could get on CD even from Switzerland.
I know Trump lost the Popular vote by a bit, but he still got about 62 million of us, more than any other Republican ever, he took 30 states to her 20, counties, don't even go there, and he got to 270 first.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 11-02-2018 at 04:32 AM..
Reason: This is not a chat thread
Obama’s mother was an unquestionable American citizen but that didn’t stop RWNJs from running in circles foaming and howling.
In 1961, Kenya was still in the middle of a civil war and interracial relations were against the law.
Despite this, Trump was the celebrity face of the birther movement that seemed to believe a very pregnant white 18 year old and her African husband magically travelled 11,000 miles to Kenya, where he had a wife and kids.
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Not My Pwesident! Waa!
