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Old 11-07-2018, 03:12 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,629,930 times
Reputation: 14050

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Let me know about a Wall only after Texas, the most rabid state on these matters, does e-verify.

Basic problem solving. Let me quote one of the Republican talking points...or two.....

1. No "new laws" until you do all you can under existing policy. E-verify and throwing a couple republican (yes, they employ more illegals) into Prison will change things very quickly.

2. Remember the cries of "skin in the game'? Well, if a Texas employers has nothing to lose except a slap on the wrist, what are they going to do? Yep - just what they are doing.

That is where the prison part comes in.....

Nothing else will work within the existing framework because if the powerful people (pols and business people) don't want to do reasonable things to make sure workers are above board, a "wall" won't help at all.

Walls do not change the inside of minds or bank accounts.

You need to make examples of these Employers and you will get big time "whisper down the lane" enforcement. You may even get immigration reform law.....but, again, only AFTER using existing tools correctly.

I am fine with immigration - I am fine with a path to citizenship (amnesty!) like Ronald Reagan is famous for. But, in general, I don't blame the hard working family-centered people who come to work. I blame those who employ them....just like with Drugs, etc. - if demand dried up, so would supply.

Heck, if Foxconn can't find workers in the WI, just imagine Texas. I mean - who among us pictures the cowboy boot and white hat crowd piling into construction sites by the 10's of thousands? I don't.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:14 PM
 
9,254 posts, read 3,568,794 times
Reputation: 4852
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Let me know about a Wall only after Texas, the most rabid state on these matters, does e-verify.

Basic problem solving. Let me quote one of the Republican talking points...or two.....

1. No "new laws" until you do all you can under existing policy. E-verify and throwing a couple republican (yes, they employ more illegals) into Prison will change things very quickly.

2. Remember the cries of "skin in the game'? Well, if a Texas employers has nothing to lose except a slap on the wrist, what are they going to do? Yep - just what they are doing.

That is where the prison part comes in.....

Nothing else will work within the existing framework because if the powerful people (pols and business people) don't want to do reasonable things to make sure workers are above board, a "wall" won't help at all.

Walls do not change the inside of minds or bank accounts.

You need to make examples of these Employers and you will get big time "whisper down the lane" enforcement. You may even get immigration reform law.....but, again, only AFTER using existing tools correctly.

I am fine with immigration - I am fine with a path to citizenship (amnesty!) like Ronald Reagan is famous for. But, in general, I don't blame the hard working family-centered people who come to work. I blame those who employ them....just like with Drugs, etc. - if demand dried up, so would supply.
An excellent post.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:16 PM
 
Location: az
13,514 posts, read 7,865,975 times
Reputation: 9332
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The Border Wall was Trump’s signature campaign issue. Do you think Trump will ever get it done now?

Or will the United States as we know it cease to exist and just become a part of Latin America eventually?
It likely won't get built and be off the table.

On the other hand Trump will have now the Dems to blame.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Here and now.
11,904 posts, read 5,563,681 times
Reputation: 12963
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
There are many ways to get Mexico to pay for the Wall without a direct payment. Tariffs for one. Energy policy is another. We can squeeze Mexico anytime we want. Anyway, I'd rather we have a Virtual Wall that works over a Physical Wall that doesn't, and only acts as a symbol.
Forget squeezing Mexico for a literal wall. I agree with you that a virtual wall would be better, assuming that by "virtual wall" you mean enforcing the laws against hiring undocumented workers, or packing them, off the books, of course, into substandard housing. These actions are wrong on two levels: they hurt American workers, and they exploit people who, for the most part, want nothing other than a better life for themselves and their children. One of the most heated arguments I have ever had was about this issue. I said we needed to enforce immigration laws to protect both our own citizens and the prospective immigrants, and a nasty little neo-con insisted I was wrong, because to do so would "hurt business."

I do not think we should allow everyone and anyone into the country, but I don't think we should scapegoat these people, either. And I sure as hell don't think we should build a wall that is not only primarily a symbol, but a monument to one man's ego. Enforce the laws we have, and spend that money on real infrastructure.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:25 PM
 
6,389 posts, read 4,098,339 times
Reputation: 8242
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The Border Wall was Trump’s signature campaign issue. Do you think Trump will ever get it done now?

Or will the United States as we know it cease to exist and just become a part of Latin America eventually?
Mexico will pay for it.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:26 PM
 
62,736 posts, read 28,935,937 times
Reputation: 18489
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232 View Post
It likely won't get built and be off the table.

On the other hand Trump will have now the Dems to blame.

Dream on, and the Democrats have been the major reason it's not been built since 2006. So nothing new to see here.
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
24,204 posts, read 19,122,698 times
Reputation: 38266
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Dotard? Trump asked for complete funding of the wall in exchange for DACA. It was the Democrats that said no.
wrong. Trump reneged on what he had agreed to with Schumer and Pelosi


Quote:
Following Trump's tweets on Thursday morning, Schumer and Pelosi said that while the details still need to be hammered out, Trump was not directly contradicting the pact reached at dinner. They said they agreed to forgo the wall as part of this deal with the president — though he would still pursue it — and that a border security package still had to be hammered out but could include new technology and roads.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...leaders-242698
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Old 11-07-2018, 03:47 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,629,930 times
Reputation: 14050
If immigration is "national security" Trump could sign an EO that:

1. Requires ALL employers of 5+ employees to use E-Verify.
2. Under the purview of "national security" the employers who do not comply can be charged differently than just "opps I forgot".....

Think about it like 911. If you call and abuse 911 the punishment can be harsh. That is because it is declared as something more important than most "oops" types of white-collar crimes (I doubt hiring undoc is even a crime if the employer claims ignorance)...

I'd be surprised if a single "Wall Cheerleader" could tell us why this hasn't been done and enforced.

But I will.....

You see, it will not get votes by taking strong actions. You get many more by making it drag out as long as possible so you can fool ignorant voters into thinking you really are going to fix things.

So far he (Trump) is 100% correct. Record immigration and his fans think it's good. You couldn't make that up if you were writing fiction.
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Old 11-07-2018, 06:56 PM
 
Location: The High Desert
16,059 posts, read 10,652,114 times
Reputation: 31392
There are reasons why the folks from Central America come to the US. They don't come here for the fun of living in a country with a foreign language where they have to hide their identity, live in fear, and run the risk of detention and separation followed by being dumped back where they started. The situation that drives them out of Central America is worse than the risks they face making the arduous journey and hiding out in the US. Until their home situation improves they will keep coming regardless of our ridiculous wall or any other feeble obstacles we put in their way. There are people who profit from having them come here. If we enforce an e-verify rule at home and spend some of those billion$ planned for the wall on mitigating conditions in Central America we would rectify some of the reasons that force them to come here in the first place. The other 40-50% that come here and overstay their visas will still be here and keep coming until we manage and track them better...the wall is useless.
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Sarasota FL
6,864 posts, read 12,041,557 times
Reputation: 6743
When the current $1.6 Billion funding runs out, that's it. No more money for wall.
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