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Old 11-18-2018, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,361 posts, read 34,494,212 times
Reputation: 73406

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Because the latest fire started on Federal land and not State?

Because you cannot do anything about fires that start in low humid, hot days with 60 mph winds?

Because CA is not responsible for falling power lines that spark fires during high winds?

Because many of the fires aren't in forests?

Because raking leaves is about the stupidest statement made by anyone?

Because you do not seem to comprehend what a 1500 degree fire moving a football field every 3 seconds will do whether or not there is any vegetation present?

Not a fire expert either, but my sister lost her home in the Tubbs fire. Residential neighborhood, not a lot of trees and vegetation around or hills or open spaces. Nice green park across the street.
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,341 posts, read 14,115,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacqueg View Post
Um, who owns the land that burned? If it's federally owned, well it's for Congress to fix, and Trump is basically threatening his own administration.

If it's state-owned, then I'm sure the California legislature will be reviewing its fire management policies. Now every firefighting agency in the west understands that drought causes problems and they don't have the resources they need to minimize the risk and adequately respond. For one thing, too much residential development is being allowed in wildfire-prone areas. That's hardly news. The issue is paying for what's needed. If it's privately owned - well, good luck telling those folks what to do. Most of them, especially large timber, ranching, and land development companies, don't like the laws they have to obey as it is. They sure won't welcome more laws telling them what to do. I'm sure Trump's already getting an earful from them about how they don't want the feds intruding into their sandbox.
Well, that would give me a warm and cozy feeling knowing that the CA legislature is going to review things. Where have they been for the last 25 years? This isn't exactly a new item. It starts with better regulation of the electric utilities.
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Middle of the valley
48,361 posts, read 34,494,212 times
Reputation: 73406
It's not the drought that caused the fire hazard, it was the end of the drought that caused it. They got tons of rain, came out of the drought. All the rain caused massive growth, followed by super dry hot weather, and poof! Everything is kindling. At least in NorCal, I don't know anything about the fires in SoCal.

Camping last year and we had to leave because of the Yosemite fire. Ahem.... another Federal park.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:23 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,285 posts, read 54,079,395 times
Reputation: 40586
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Trump has run his mouth again and infuriated the left and their media friends -- but maybe the attention should be on liberal California instead. I'm not an expert on forest fires but I can tell you one thing: somebody isn't getting the job done out there, and things need to be changed. And whether or not it's global warming related really doesn't matter in the present, because we need to put some changes in place to prevent these horrible fires. I will start with: PG&E needs to be held fully accountable, up to the point of arresting people if need to, to punish them for their lousy job of preventing their equipment from starting fires. If you need to tack on a 5% surcharge to every customer's bill, and then go out and hire 500 more people for maintenance -- then you do it!


And Trump IS?
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:27 PM
 
27,625 posts, read 21,040,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post
And Trump IS?
He is everything to all of his fans. He is the standard bearer for the less than even mediocre.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:32 PM
 
3,221 posts, read 1,721,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
This thread isn't about Trump. It's about CALIFORNIA's prevention of forest fires. They get an F minus from me.
You admittedly know nothing, sounds like a pointless debate to me.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:36 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,942 posts, read 22,404,347 times
Reputation: 25806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigma777 View Post
Neither is Trump. Far from it. I would not think anyone would actually want to draw attention to Trump as he made such inane remarks.

In fact, he just made himself a laughing stock of the world with his fire 'advice.'

"...Trump mocked for telling California to rake its forests like Finland to reduce fire risk..."

"..In response to Trump's comment, the Finns collectively said, "Excuse me?"...

“You look at other countries where they do it differently, and it’s a whole different story,†he said. "I was with the president of Finland, and he said, 'We have a much different— we're a forest nation,' he called it a 'forest nation.'"

“...And they spend a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing things," he said of the Finns. "And they don’t have any problem..."

Niinisto, in an interview published in the Ilta-Sanomat newspaper on Sunday, said that he told Trump: “Finland is a country covered by forests but we also have a good surveillance system and network..."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-finland-rake/

https://inktank.fi/rake-news-how-soc...nnish-forests/

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article...ise-california
Finland also as a ton of rain - something California is lacking.


Add to that - that the president of Finland said he never discussed 'raking the forest' with Trump.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,285 posts, read 54,079,395 times
Reputation: 40586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Trump is right and if you want to read a well written article discussing the subject try this one. More control burns and harvesting of trees need to be done but CA environmentalist fight proper controls.

How Misguided Environmentalism Is To Blame For California's Wildfires


Gee, a political grad student's article on a self-professed Conservative site parroting the party line, sure sounds like an unbiased source.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Home is Where You Park It
23,856 posts, read 13,638,011 times
Reputation: 15481
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
Well, that would give me a warm and cozy feeling knowing that the CA legislature is going to review things. Where have they been for the last 25 years? This isn't exactly a new item. It starts with better regulation of the electric utilities.
The state regulates fire management in two ways

1) the state owns the land in question
2) the state can regulate private lands

California has little say over federal land. I don't know how much of the land that burned this year was federally owned, but I'm pretty sure there was federal land involved in both the Redding-area fires. Dunno about the Paradise fire, but I don't think there was much federal land involved, and I believe that the Malibu fire is mostly or entirely on private land.

I don't know how much, if any, of the land that burned this year is state-owned. I do know that quite a bit of the land that burned was private.

So you are calling for better regulation of utilities? I agree. Are you calling for stricter regulation of private land, including residential, timberland, and ranchland? Here too, I agree. Are you calling for more investment in reforestation and habitat restoration on both public and private lands? I agree.

In most western states, private timberland is taxed by the state in order to help pay for wildfire costs. I think they should be paying more, and not be relying so much on federal taxpayers.

Unlike you, I have had a front-row seat on some of these legislative fights, and guess what - they're HARD. Exactly NO ONE has been asleep at the switch here, it is a perpetual, ongoing issue in all the western states.

I will say that both timber companies and government usually agree that residential development in commercial forest areas needs to be sharply curtailed, and that any houses that are allowed need to be built to much higher (read: more expensive) fire-resistant standards, and that those standards should be actively enforced. But it's pretty hard to get counties and cities on board with this, because they need revenue too, so they are generally pro-development.

I could go on for quite a while. But rest assured, if you've never been involved in these fights, you really haven't a clue as to how difficult they are or how much energy and attention has been expended since the 70s on these questions. Everyone involved pretty much feels like they're just trying to play catch-up as the questions get harder.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,341 posts, read 14,115,892 times
Reputation: 27852
So far I've heard very little in this threat about solutions and holding CA government to some level of accountability. I have heard:

* Trump's an idiot
* Trump knows nothing about fire management
* Finland is different because of it's climate. No kidding.


I may know nothing about how to prevent forest fires, but I do know this:

* CA politicians are doing an awful job
* The utilities have been woefully under-regulated
* The state, federal, and local authorities need to get a system in place and start working together.
* Having fires burn out of control like this, and 1000 people missing... is not acceptable.
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