Government Motors Is Back (For more subsidies and mandates) (gallon, Mexican, gasoline)

[Spartacus713]

General Motors is back - seeking more subsidies and mandates to add to the previous federal government bailouts, subsidies and mandates that they have received, largely from the Obama regime, over the last decade.

Personally, I thought the initial bailouts were so outrageous that I do not plan to ever buy another General Motors car again. But then came the excessively aggressive CAFE standards, the economically absurd (but not politically absurd) ethanol mandates, and of course the state of California's entirely separate regulatory regime. This has all been getting well out of hand.

The Trump administration has frozen the CAFE mileage target at 37 miles per gallon in 2020, which will make things more realistically manageable. General Motors is now complaining that they will not get "regulatory credit" for their electric car investments, and is seeking modifications to the rules to accommodate those. From the Wall Street Journal:

Government Motors Is Back

Electric cars make up a mere 1% of U.S. sales, but manufacturers have been required to produce an increasing number to comply with California’s zero-emissions vehicle mandate and federal fuel-economy (Cafe) standards. China, which accounts for half of the world’s EV sales, has also imposed aggressive mandates with generous consumer and manufacturer subsidies.

The Obama Administration nonetheless sought to compel automakers to produce ever more electric cars by requiring an average fleet fuel economy of 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025. Car manufacturers rightly said the Cafe ramp-up was infeasible, so in August the Trump Administration proposed freezing the 2020 target of 37 miles per gallon through 2025.

No good gesture goes unappreciated. Auto makers now complain that the Trump Administration’s deregulation has gone too far and that they won’t get regulatory credit for their electric- car investments. They also worry that they may still have to increase EV production to meet California’s quotas that have been adopted by nine other states.

{More at the link}

I am all for electric cars. In fact, I have never met anyone who was actually against them. However, the federal government subsidies and the mandates that increase costs to consumers twice, first through increased car prices and secondarily through increased federal government spending, which is paid for with taxpayer dollars, I generally do not support.

These vehicles need to be able to stand on their own. When they eventually get the battery technology fixed, and someday I am confident that they will, then the internal combustion engine may then find its way to the endangered species list.

But that time has not come yet, nor is it likely to any time soon. It will likely be decades yet, in fact. In the interim, let those people who are so fanatical about these machines finance their development and purchase them with their own money. Enough with the government bailouts, handouts, subsidies, etc.

[NY_refugee87]

LOL they need to fire the designers of the new silverados and whoever designed the camaro.

Fugly.

GM gets 1 thing right. Then blows it bigly for 2019...
They should have stuck with what they're good at and LS V8 all the things!
And fire whoever is on their design team. They're pumping out some fugly vehicles these days.

[Drewjdeg]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

LOL they need to fire the designers of the new silverados and whoever designed the camaro.

Fugly.

GM gets 1 thing right. Then blows it bigly for 2019...
They should have stuck with what they're good at and LS V8 all the things!
And fire whoever is on their design team. They're pumping out some fugly vehicles these days.

I thought the new Silverado was selling well. Might be wrong.

[TempesT68]

American companies belong in america.

[NY_refugee87]

Originally Posted by Drewjdeg

I thought the new Silverado was selling well. Might be wrong.

Yeah the 14-18s maybe were selling like hot cakes.

Have you seen it? That thing is hideous!
Looks like a tundra got drunk and took an F150 home at last call, and 9 months later... this is the end result...

I thought the 07-13 body style was ugly...
Their engineers said, hold my beer! You haven't seen ugly yet.

The interior is as cheap and cheesy as all get out.

I'm a Chevy guy, they will not be getting my money for a new truck. I'll keep my 14 half ton and 16 duramax until the parts disappear.
These new ones are fugly.

Front end looks like a bulldog fell down stairs.
Side profile does, looks like a tundra crossed with an F150.
Not a fan, I saw 3 new 19s at the local dealer... a chit box 2 wheel drive extended cab work truck was 38k and change there isn't 38k worth of ugly. 25k maybe.

The LTZs they had despite being fully loaded, there isn't 70k worth of truck there. Put all the creature features you want, the wrapper is still fugly.

If Chevy wants me to drive that thing, they'd have to pay me for the embarrassment.
I can not express how hideous the new trucks are... Wait until you see one in person...

14-18s are the best looking modern pickups out there.
The only other trucks that Chevy pumped out that looked that good were from 68-72 and 84-87.

You can take a 14-18 and either slam it to the ground tucking 20s, it'd look awesome, leave it at its stock ride height, it'd still look good, level the front end and shove 33s under it and it'd look great, or lift it and throw mudders under it and it'd look good.

These new ones... pfft. The engineers ought to be ashamed of themselves.
There's no fixing the ugly there... I wonder if they were inspired by a 14-18 that had a front end collision or had a Ford designer come in to design the truck to out ugly ford to get folks to buy more F150s...

I cannot express how hideous the 19s are...
I never liked the new camaro... that car is ugly on steroids. Has A pillars right where you'd look while on a road course, a roof line that is so low, even with the seat put right on the floor and tipped back there's barely any head room in them. Blind spots galore in that thing.

That 19 silverado though, is nightmare fuel.

[PullMyFinger]

If you want an American car buy Ford. They have never accepted a dollar of federal money. They refused to make a profit off WWII military production and they refused the government subsidies intended to help them transition back to peacetime business after the war. And they refused Obama cash in ‘08.

[Troyfan]

We bought a 2018 Arcadia. We love it.

Electric cars never work like gasoline cars. It takes too long to recharge batteries and their range is too short. I bet they've reached the physical limits of the technology.

The only way batteries could work would be if they had battery changing stations: instead of recharging, they take out the discharged battery and put in a good one. I can't see how this wouldn't be a nightmare, but it's the best case.

[don1945]

Originally Posted by PullMyFinger

If you want an American car buy Ford. They have never accepted a dollar of federal money. They refused to make a profit off WWII military production and they refused the government subsidies intended to help them transition back to peacetime business after the war. And they refused Obama cash in ‘08.

I am a Ford guy, but that is not necessarily true. In 1986 I bought a brand new Mercury Cougar and had so many problems with it I knew the Ford rep in Detroit on a first name basis. He told me one time that he pulled up my build sheet, and my car had the Mexican engine and the Canadian body. So much for "built in America". (and Ford did take bailout money that they repaid ala Iacocca)


Anyway, GM (and Ford) both paid back their bailout money ahead of schedule and with interest, when Obama loaned them that money. There is some question about the government accepting stock as repayment for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, but GM did pay for the bailout itself. (and so did Ford)

If Obama would have let GM and Ford fail, can you imagine the repercussions it would have caused in our economy ? He made a tough call, and it worked.

[ottomobeale]

Originally Posted by NY_refugee87

LOL they need to fire the designers of the new silverados and whoever designed the camaro.

Fugly.

GM gets 1 thing right. Then blows it bigly for 2019...
They should have stuck with what they're good at and LS V8 all the things!
And fire whoever is on their design team. They're pumping out some fugly vehicles these days.

LOL yep. the new Silverado looks like a 2015 Honda Ridgeline had a baby with a Pontiac Aztec.

[ottomobeale]

Originally Posted by don1945

I am a Ford guy, but that is not necessarily true. In 1986 I bought a brand new Mercury Cougar and had so many problems with it I knew the Ford rep in Detroit on a first name basis. He told me one time that he pulled up my build sheet, and my car had the Mexican engine and the Canadian body. So much for "built in America". (and Ford did take bailout money that they repaid ala Iacocca)


Anyway, GM (and Ford) both paid back their bailout money ahead of schedule and with interest, when Obama loaned them that money. There is some question about the government accepting stock as repayment for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, but GM did pay for the bailout itself. (and so did Ford)

If Obama would have let GM and Ford fail, can you imagine the repercussions it would have caused in our economy ? He made a tough call, and it worked.

The infamous 3.8L head gasket eater?