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I found a great article in the Atlantic Council: Here's Why The United States Needs NATO."
I researched the Atlantic Council in Media Bias/Fact Check and found that it is least biased and with a high factual report rating. It has a headquarter in Washington DC, and is a forum for political, international business and intellectual leaders.
Here are some highlights:
WW2 cost us 4.1 trillion in today's money and 400,000 American lives. A similar war today would be estimated to be 2.5 trillion.
Twenty six of the twenty nine NATO members live in free countries and promote democracy.
"NATO is a force multiplier." There are 1,857,000 active members and 1,232,290 reserve members. The U.S. has 1.3 million.
Non U.S. members can deploy 6,983 tanks, 34,000 armored vehicles, 2,600 combat aircraft, 382 attack helicopters, 252 naval craft including submarines, and 1,582 patriot and surface missiles. Thirty percent of this comes from France and the U.K.
NATO and European members are in the first stages of a new missile defense program to prevent long range attacks from rogue nation missiles. (North Korea?)
NATO shares intelligence to the tune of 40,000 intelligence personal.
There are 28 U.S. operating bases in Europe which are critical to missions in the Middle East.
NATO saved the U.S. 49 billion dollars last year by contributing to the war in Afghanistan.
NATO contributed 699 billion dollars in 2015 because of the stability NATO provides and U.S. exports to former Communist NATO states grew from 0.9 billion to 9.4 billion from 1989-2016.
Our NATO allies depend on the U.S. defense industry to supply firearms and equipment. European members are planning on buying 500 new P35 aircraft.
So despot Don wants America first? It seems a tad short sighted to give up all of the advantages of NATO in favor of a populist shrinking of American global influence. I understand why are allies are concerned. Given Putin's annexation of Crimea and his world view that division is great for his agenda. Divide and conquer. Trump wants 50's America, and Putin wants the old Soviet Union back. The bromance continues.
It might be that simple even though they are going crazy in their own way allowing all those migrants in ect.
But you are right, they might just be losing faith in the US. It would cost them trillions to catch up to us so that puts all the social programs that our military protection has made possible on the chopping block.
This is the crux of the dilemma, IMO, and is the real reason why Europe doesn't like Trump.
They want to maintain their top-tier, expensive social programs while the US does the dirty work of paying for defense. Sort of like the friend who always wants you to drive because he doesn't want to buy a car, pay for gas, or insurance, even though you don't want to pay for those things either. This is where Trump really excels, IMO. He is finally pushing back on them and demanding fairer treatment. He's not asking for them to pay more than us, he's asking for fairness (and really, he's still being quite easy on them by only demanding they contribute 2% GDP, whereas we contribute more than 3.5%).
So yes, by all means NATO is a great organization, and should not be dissolved. However, we need to encourage our European friends to take a look at the situation from the US's perspective for a change, and chip in a bit more.
Last edited by ryanst530; 11-14-2018 at 10:20 AM..
I'm trying to wrap my head around Merkel's push for a European Military all of a sudden.
--Is it because the US is asking for more money?
--Is the US abusing the European nations in some way because of our military?
--Is it that Donald Trump hurts their feelings?
What is the reason here?
Two reasons. The only way that the EU survives is if it politically becomes the United States of Europe (USE). All the countries become states with a federal government that has power that overrules them all. That is not what they have now. So that will included a USE constitution, a USE central bank, USE direct taxes, a USE foreign policy and, yes, a USE army.
This halfway in, halfway out arrangement that they are trying to manage now is not sustainable, and both Merkel and Macron know it. The problem is that the people in these countries are pushing in the direction away from federal unity, and towards the embrace of each of their own countries' national sovereignty. This speech was a last ditch effort to try to encourage the states of the EU in the direction of a federal USE.
But the people of Europe do not want that and they are not going to support this European army idea for many of the same reasons. But this is why Merkel and Macron are pushing for it.
The second reason is that if the US is going to impose the humiliation of expecting the European nations of NATO to pay for their own defense, doesn't it make sense that the EU would want to be in charge of that themselves and shake free the oversight of the US? Of course children want to be treated more like adults, but they need to grow up before they are really ready to shoulder that responsibility. Likewise for the European desire to command their own self defense, independent of US involvement.
Looks like NATO is going kaput after France and Germany agree to form a Euro-Army. Trump hates NATO, has no interest in wasting money defending Baltics, Ukraine, Georgia, etc...
NATO does nothing but expand closer to Russia, and wastes U.S. tax payer money.
Time for NATO to dissolve has come.
Great! It is about time that European countries contribute their fair share for their own defense.
Looks like NATO is going kaput after France and Germany agree to form a Euro-Army. Trump hates NATO, has no interest in wasting money defending Baltics, Ukraine, Georgia, etc...
NATO does nothing but expand closer to Russia, and wastes U.S. tax payer money.
Time for NATO to dissolve has come.
i guess you never served did you.
because if you did you would know that almost to a man, the military believes NATO is about the best money the US has ever spent.... thus Mrgomar, what on earth are you talking about?
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Originally Posted by animalcrazy
I found a great article in the Atlantic Council: Here's Why The United States Needs NATO."
I researched the Atlantic Council in Media Bias/Fact Check and found that it is least biased and with a high factual report rating. It has a headquarter in Washington DC, and is a forum for political, international business and intellectual leaders.
Here are some highlights:
WW2 cost us 4.1 trillion in today's money and 400,000 American lives. A similar war today would be estimated to be 2.5 trillion.
Twenty six of the twenty nine NATO members live in free countries and promote democracy.
"NATO is a force multiplier." There are 1,857,000 active members and 1,232,290 reserve members. The U.S. has 1.3 million.
Non U.S. members can deploy 6,983 tanks, 34,000 armored vehicles, 2,600 combat aircraft, 382 attack helicopters, 252 naval craft including submarines, and 1,582 patriot and surface missiles. Thirty percent of this comes from France and the U.K.
NATO and European members are in the first stages of a new missile defense program to prevent long range attacks from rogue nation missiles. (North Korea?)
NATO shares intelligence to the tune of 40,000 intelligence personal.
There are 28 U.S. operating bases in Europe which are critical to missions in the Middle East.
NATO saved the U.S. 49 billion dollars last year by contributing to the war in Afghanistan.
NATO contributed 699 billion dollars in 2015 because of the stability NATO provides and U.S. exports to former Communist NATO states grew from 0.9 billion to 9.4 billion from 1989-2016.
Our NATO allies depend on the U.S. defense industry to supply firearms and equipment. European members are planning on buying 500 new P35 aircraft.
So despot Don wants America first? It seems a tad short sighted to give up all of the advantages of NATO in favor of a populist shrinking of American global influence. I understand why are allies are concerned. Given Putin's annexation of Crimea and his world view that division is great for his agenda. Divide and conquer. Trump wants 50's America, and Putin wants the old Soviet Union back. The bromance continues.
For the uninitiated, it’s difficult to explain what exactly the Atlantic Council does. Essentially, the club exists to influence the information space to justify NATO’s continued existence. It does that by either employing Russia’s opponents directly or offering retainers to journalists and media analysts who can be relied upon to push the outfit’s anti-Russian stance. Which, of course, is its lifeblood.
because if you did you would know that almost to a man, the military believes NATO is about the best money the US has ever spent.... thus Mrgomar, what on earth are you talking about?
WWI was able to occur through a combination on secret defense alliances and isolationism = a deadly combination. We are headed toward isolationism again (since secret defense pacts are, well, secret, we really can't say anything about that). While war has changed and trench warfare has gone the way of the dodo, we still need to do all we can to prevent WWIII. Isolationism has never worked and it won't work now. As for the money factor - pay now for defense, or pay a fortune in money and lives for a war that, with the weapons we have now, will have no winners. Sometimes you have to look to the long term future - any serious study of history will show you that this is true.
For the uninitiated, it’s difficult to explain what exactly the Atlantic Council does. Essentially, the club exists to influence the information space to justify NATO’s continued existence. It does that by either employing Russia’s opponents directly or offering retainers to journalists and media analysts who can be relied upon to push the outfit’s anti-Russian stance. Which, of course, is its lifeblood.
Even if it does promote Atlantic relations, the article is still based on factual information regarding NATO, which is a much better AS an alliance than the alternative options and the article also highlights the importance and some of the benefits of NATO to the US.
The truth is even Trump doesn't like the idea of a European Army or European forces replacing NATO and this has always been the main political thinking in the US.
For the uninitiated, it’s difficult to explain what exactly the Atlantic Council does. Essentially, the club exists to influence the information space to justify NATO’s continued existence. It does that by either employing Russia’s opponents directly or offering retainers to journalists and media analysts who can be relied upon to push the outfit’s anti-Russian stance. Which, of course, is its lifeblood.
Oh great, so I'm supposed to believe a right wing biased source with a mixed review for factual reporting according to Media Bias/Fact check? "The Rom Paul Institute generally reports with minimal loaded words and most times sources to credible information. However, there are times that they source to FAR RIGHT, QUESTIONABLE or CONSPIRACY websites. They also occasionally publish unsubstantiated claims such as the Syria chemical attack being a false flag operation."
Yeah,
You need to think about the strategic bases we have on foreign soil and how important that is in our dealings with the Middle East. Trump's hyperbolic simple minded rube rhetoric making NATO and our allies the Boogeyman is short sighted. Facts are facts and Ron Paul's agenda driven opinion pieces are just that. Common sense will tell you that America alone is weaker than America with allies.
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