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People go to college, get degrees and possibly end up with a mountain of debt. Then they can't find a job or stuck working at Starbucks for minimum wage and can't afford to live on their own. It's usually those with degrees in gender studies, humanities, diversity, or sociology that struggles.
How many without degrees are struggling?
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I once had a professor start to go on a political rant, then stop and ask if anyone in the class was a Republican. This class had nothing to do with politics. My high school history teacher also loved to throw her political opinion into class instead of focusing on facts.
I did have 2 teachers, high school and college American Government teachers, both of who kept the class guessing as to where they stood the entire semester. I had far more respect for those teachers who were honest in saying they did not want their opinion to taint us and wanted us to form our own opinions. Seems rare these days.
My daughter had a social studies teacher for two different classes over the past few years who was a fairly rabid Trumper.
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BS. There are college grads flipping burgers and waiting tables, while waiting for word of their applications to the Nordstrom cosmetic sales counter.
Our graduates today are in general, VERY LOW on the list of academic achievement, when measured by international standards. These graduates are in substantial numbers, ill prepared to contribute to the modern workforce. This is sad, given that not long ago, we were historically number 1. The reality is, College today is an education “puppy mill”, with two major focuses .... one, to create leftist leaning, non-thinkers, and two, creating hundreds of billions in student loan debt.
The continued relaxation of academic standards for University admissions, (couched in the push to address diversity objectives) virtually guarantees a lower quality education across the board, and subsequently a lower quality result. Which IS what we’re seeing.
Hold up. I thought today’s conservatives were all about nationalism.
Why care about what any grads in other countries are doing?
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Whenever someone brings this up, I chuckle a bit. My daughter's first college roommate was Chinese from a family of some privilege. She was a theater major whose life revolved around make-up, fashion, and the odd cosmetic surgery. Her math skills were pathetic, and she struggled to pass even the rudimentary math class required for theater students, and, frankly, few of the Chinese students in her class were particularly impressive academically. I tell you this to remind you that China has plenty of kids who aren't gifted or interested in STEM subjects.
As an aside, my own kids, who came out of public schools, entered college with the math requirements for their STEM degrees, computer science and engineering, mostly completed.
The only time conservatives seem to care what anyone is doing in another country compared to what people are doing here is when the subject of which college degrees are “worthy” appears.
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I rather enjoyed it when my high school teachers and college instructors shared their opinions - which ran the gamut from ultra conservative to flat-out socialist, even. I've never been afraid of new ideas or points of view.
Their job is to teach facts, not spew out their opinions on impressionable students. I don't care what side of the political spectrum, they should remain neutral and unbiased.
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Originally Posted by RedZin
My daughter had a social studies teacher for two different classes over the past few years who was a fairly rabid Trumper.
And like I just said, they should keep their opinions to themselves.
The point I was making was that just because an individual has a college degree or degrees, it does not automatically mean that they are smarter than an individual who does not have a college degree. You can say that they are more "educated" than someone without a degree because they have spent more time in school and supposedly have gone through a more rigorous curriculum as they furthered their "education", however, you still can't say that this makes them smarter than someone without a degree.
Then I stand corrected. Thank you for clarifying, and I apologize for the misguided rant. We seem to be in agreement.
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So saying that liberals are smarter than conservatives, as you have inferred, is not accurate in many cases.
Again we agree.
Just to clarify my own position: I would say that placing a high value on a well-rounded education is a wise choice, and I would say that, as a society, we are well-advised to place high value on doing whatever we can reasonably do to make sure that every American has equitable access to good education. Education, as you point out, is not a necessary or sufficient condition for smart thinking (because some important aspects of wisdom are emotional intelligence, creativity, and good values and educational systems have typically had a tough time teaching those things), but I think that a well-rounded education can skew the statistics so that, overall, well-educated people can have somewhat of an edge when it comes to making socially responsible decisions. This is because good decisions generally depend on good comprehension of the alternatives, and learning to comprehend and evaluate alternative views is a major component of a good, well-rounded education.
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I don't believe in any liberal conspiracy on campuses per se, but I have seen many instances of anti-conservative behavior on college campuses whether it be rioting over Milo Yiannopoulos invite to Berkeley, cancelling Ben Shapiro's talk at Cal State LA or the BEATING of Gavin McInnes at NYU. While they rail about freedom of speech and being heard, they then do whatever it takes to shut down speech that disagrees with what their beliefs are. It's pure hypocrisy and it's getting worse.
Again we agree. I cringe when liberals do this.
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Oh, you guessed that I haven't obtained a college degree. No, I have not obtained a college degree, however, did you mean attained a college degree?
Good call. My bad. I tend to fly through writing these posts at lightening speed, so I'm not always as careful or a clear as I'd like to be. (Although I think that, technically, obtaining X doesn't exclude the possibility that it was also attained. Still, my word choice was bad.)
Last edited by Gaylenwoof; 11-18-2018 at 07:56 AM..
Even if they’re “waiting for the “Nordstrom cosmetic counter” college grads are more likely to be hired and to be advanced than non-college graduates. Most of your management staff in retail are college grads now, at least in larger cities. The non-college grads have less job opportunities in any town where college grads want to live and tend to congregate, leaving non-college grads more or less marooned in small towns or rural areas.
Listen ... you entirely missed the point. Of course a college grad has employment advantages over non-grads. Nobody would argue such a basic point. The REAL point is, to what “employment” standard do they truly qualify? And at what cost? And believe me, I’m not just talking about monetary costs ... but costs to those who either can’t afford college, or are academically not qualified to hold a “degree”.
On the surface, the liberal non-thinking mentality unanimously cheers this increasing level of graduates as real progress, and want to push the numbers further. The problem is that under the surface, this is not necessarily a beneficial thing, and here’s why ...
1) contrary to the liberal thought process.... not everyone is equally qualified for everything. We are neither equal in ability, nor capability, nor aptitude. Some folks are better suited to labor, rather than marketing and finance, or business management. Some folks are better suited to Construction, Plumbing, Roofing, etc., and we need ALL OF THESE skills. So, unless you really believe that the only difference between a brain surgeon and a Plumber is his access to a University education, this underlying idea of having everyone become college grads is not just foolish, but counter productive, as well as financially non-feasible ( Unless you talk to Bernie Sanders, who believes college should be free, because money grows on trees in his fantasy world).
2) Cause and effect-supply and demand also plays a huge role in reality (another concept liberals still find challenging). When you increase the numbers of college grads on the market ... it’s no difference than when you increase the supply of ANYTHING on the market ... it drives VALUE DOWN, and particularly true in this example, when increased volume is achieved by lowering standards/qualifications. This now diminishes the value of the college degree to that of a high school diploma, when EVERYONE has one, including those who would have never passed an college entrance exam, not so long ago.
3) We’ve seen the results of this poorly considered philosophy back in the 1970s and 1980’s, with the push toward Technology based employment economics, while exporting, in masse, manufacturing jobs overseas. The premise was that we Americans will all become white collar techies, executives, and business moguls, and leave that blue collar manual labor crap to third worlder types. Two problems arrised from that ill conceived plan ... a) a substantial number within our population are not suited to becoming Electrical Engineers or computer programmers and application design engineers ... b) the advancement in high speed data communication opened up the ability to ship many of those hi-tech jobs overseas also, creating even more employment pressure on qualified individuals, who either lost their jobs, or suffered dramatic cuts in their pay (value). In this case, more IS NOT BETTER, unless the demand requires more!!! When supply out paces demand, more equals pain, not pleasure.
At the end of the day, we need to return to higher standards, and not continue to lower them for the sake of achieving some feel good, well intended, yet flawed objective that produces the exact opposite of what was the intent.
So no, the fundamental premise of the value in increasing the percentages of college educated individuals within the population at large, isn’t the end all be all. There are complex cause and effect factors not being considered ... lest I mention the waste of massive amounts of money to ensure every McDonalds employee has at least an Associates degree, because that won’t increase the quality of a burger and fries .... but it may indeed displace the 19 year old from consideration for that job at the drive up window.
Last edited by GuyNTexas; 11-18-2018 at 08:28 AM..
Pretty weird, isn't it? People who get higher levels of education often tend to get more liberal. Gotta be a conspiracy. Nothing else could possibly explain it.
That's right. Also, the news doesn't fit with my preconceived worldview. Therefore the news media are all part of that same liberal communist conspiracy.
Their job is to teach facts, not spew out their opinions on impressionable students. I don't care what side of the political spectrum, they should remain neutral and unbiased.
And like I just said, they should keep their opinions to themselves.
Was the Vietnam war a patriotic just war for the United States?
Were masters all good to their slaves?
Did the 2nd Amendment mean adults can buy grenade launchers?
Is God Real? Is God a Male or Female?
Answer those without an opinion and then we can talk about facts....
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