Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,175 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19472
Advertisements
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Brave New World, why do you change the words I write?
I did not write "free trade deal" I wrote "trade deals." Ditto earlier when I wrote "weaken the EU" not "weaken their economy."
Not trying to be snarky, but it has happened several times and I can't help but wonder what's going on.
Over and over I've written that of course the UK will be able to negotiate trade deals but it is unlikely they will get as good a deal with the EU as they have by being part of it.
You continue to change my words and then post long lists of links of how this building or that business is going up in the UK.
All fine and dandy, but everyone else in the known universe, with the notable exception of those who said two years ago that Brexit would be economically advantageous and then watched the economy slow down, is saying that leaving will involve further economic costs.
May's government is literally coming apart at the seams over this.
What you wrote was
Any trade deal is going to be free trade as the alternative is tariff trade under WTO.
Theresa May never said any such thing indeed she campaigned to remain, however the people of Britain voted to leave, as for being economically advantageous we are hardly in a good agreement with the EU at the momenr as I have already pointed out in previous posts. Whilst I have already explained there is no reason why the UK should not be given a free trade deal, especially as the EU allows free trade and equivalency with numerous other countries outside of the EU.
The most likely outcome is a free trade agreement with the EU and the UK making further free trade agreements with other countries and groups of countries such as the pacific trade pacts, CANZUK and the US.
The UK will under suh circumstances retain string ties with Europe and will collaborate on areas such as Defence, Security, Foreign Policy, Human Rights etc.
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,175 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19472
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Brave New World, why do you change the words I write?
I did not write "free trade deal" I wrote "trade deals." Ditto earlier when I wrote "weaken the EU" not "weaken their economy."
Not trying to be snarky, but it has happened several times and I can't help but wonder what's going on.
Over and over I've written that of course the UK will be able to negotiate trade deals but it is unlikely they will get as good a deal with the EU as they have by being part of it.
You continue to change my words and then post long lists of links of how this building or that business is going up in the UK.
All fine and dandy, but everyone else in the known universe, with the notable exception of those who said two years ago that Brexit would be economically advantageous and then watched the economy slow down, is saying that leaving will involve further economic costs.
May's government is literally coming apart at the seams over this.
Any trade deal is going to be free trade as the alternative is tariff trade under WTO.
May never said any such thing she campaigned to remain, however the people of Britain voted to leave, as for being economically advantageous we are hardly in a good agreement with the EU as I have already pointed out, and as I have already explained there is no reason why the UK should not be given a free trade deal, especially as the EU allows free trade and equivalency with numerous other countries.
The most likely outcome is a free trade agreement with the EU and the UK making further free trade agreements with other countries and groups of countries such as the pacific trade pacts, CANZUK and the US.
"Free trade is a policy to eliminate discrimination against imports and exports. Buyers and sellers from different economies may voluntarily trade without a government applying tariffs, quotas, subsidies or prohibitions on goods and services." https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/free-trade.asp
A trade deal could or could not be a free trade deal. It all depends.
In any case, UK's economy is sinking at this very moment in anticipation of Brexit. Knowledgeable people with a variety of political stances anticipateit will sink even further with Brexit. Hence May's opposition in Parliament and even in her own cabinet.
Some believe the price is worth it. So be it.
No reason to fool yourself about that. It is what it is.
My UK Brexiteer friend sent me this Bloomberg article written by Mervyn King, former Governor of the Bank of England 2003-13. I like his opening sentence:
When Tony Blair and Boris Johnson unite in their condemnation of the “deal” under which Theresa May proposes that the U.K. should leave the EU, you know something has gone badly wrong.
The pro Brexit supporters sold the British people a phony narrative. They indicated breaking away would be easy. It has been far from it and they have offered no viable route to do so.
Advocate General at the European Court of Justice announced the UK has the power to unilaterally revoke Article 50. This will likely be confirmed later this month.
This may make it even more difficult for May's deal as she won't be able to use the threat of no-deal Brexit.
Yesterday, May's administration was defeated in three votes.
Nigel Farage announced he was leaving Ukip party.
The BBC dropped plans for a Brexit debate between Corbyn and May as they couldn’t agree on a format.
"Meanwhile, former Bank of England governor Mervyn King wrote an article in which he likened Theresa May’s Brexit deal to the appeasement of the Nazis."
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,175 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19472
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
Advocate General at the European Court of Justice announced the UK has the power to unilaterally revoke Article 50. This will likely be confirmed later this month.
This may make it even more difficult for May's deal as she won't be able to use the threat of no-deal Brexit.
Yesterday, May's administration was defeated in three votes.
Nigel Farage announced he was leaving Ukip party.
The BBC dropped plans for a Brexit debate between Corbyn and May as they couldn’t agree on a format.
"Meanwhile, former Bank of England governor Mervyn King wrote an article in which he likened Theresa May’s Brexit deal to the appeasement of the Nazis."
They have been saying this from the start, and the Government has no wish to revoke Article 50.
I have stated again and again that Theresa May's deal woul;dn't get through Parliament, however that doesn't mean Brexit won't happen, as MPs still do not have the power to block a no-deal Brexit.
After a no deal Brexit we would revert to WTO Rules and make new trade deals, including a possible free trade deal with the EU.
The big problem with May's deal was staying in the Customs Union and the now published legal advice comfirms this.
We will have to see what happens on the 11th December before jumping to conclusions, however I suspect May's plan will be deafeated as it's not popular with anyone and is too much of a compromise.
In terms of the Tories there could be a leadership challenge, which would probably result in a more hardline Brexiteer becoming leader and indeed Prime Minister, with Boris Johnson likelt to be one such candidate.
In terms of the Labour Party they don't know what to do, and have no real policy other than soime vague rebogiation, when the EU has already stated tht May's deal is the only deal available, and staying in the customs union without a voice in Europe would be massively unpopular with the electorate.
As for a second referendum that would be massively controversial and would be seen as a betrayal of the original vote and even if Remain won it would leave us with the same problems as we had in relation to the EU as we had before the vote, especially in relation to further intergration and a move towards a more federal Europe, which is not something a lot of British people want.
Personally I think May will go and someone like Boris Johnson, David Davis or Jacob Rees- Mogg might take over and oversee our exit, before calling any general election.
Last edited by Brave New World; 12-05-2018 at 05:38 AM..
"Scottish Government analysis shows that Theresa May’s deal could leave each person in Scotland £1,600 worse, off as compared to remaining in the EU."
"A no-deal would be a calamity for Scotland: it would result in a loss of 80,000 jobs, lead to problems in the supply of medicines, and create more red tape and bureaucracy for businesses."
Status:
"“If a thing loves, it is infinite.”"
(set 2 days ago)
Location: Great Britain
27,175 posts, read 13,455,286 times
Reputation: 19472
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould
"Scottish Government analysis shows that Theresa May’s deal could leave each person in Scotland £1,600 worse, off as compared to remaining in the EU."
"A no-deal would be a calamity for Scotland: it would result in a loss of 80,000 jobs, lead to problems in the supply of medicines, and create more red tape and bureaucracy for businesses."
I wouldn't believe everything parties like the SNP come up with.
Scotland has nearly £60 Billion woth of trade with England and only £11 Billion with Europe.
There would be no job losses if a free trade agreement was worked out, and the UK could also sign free trade agreements with other parts of the world.
Scottish Indepence would according to economists be eight times more damaging than Brexit, as Scotland relies on trade with England and lots of UK Government contracts as well as the Barnett formula.
London GDP $600 billion (although the wider London metropolitan area has an even larger GDP)
Scotland GDP - $237 Billion
Wales GDP - $62 Billion
Northern Ireland GDP - $49 Billion
Scotlands GDP is also going to be effected by the loss of oil and gas revenues, with VW just this week stating that the last petroul/diesel vehicle launch will be 2026, and most countries planning to ban diesel and petrol from 2030 onwards.
So good look with that, what's more no country can join the EU now without adopting the single currency and a lot of other policies than the UK has declined in the past, as we do not want to become a federal outpost of a Europe ruled by Berlin and administered from Brussels.
Last edited by Brave New World; 12-05-2018 at 10:41 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
