Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-28-2018, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,198 posts, read 23,608,007 times
Reputation: 38539

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specific Point View Post
I attended an event where the superintendent of schools spoke to the community. He was talking about the differences between various ethnic groups in academic test results. He told the audience that he firmly believed that in 20 years that there would be no difference in academic performance and test scores between Black, White, Asian and Hispanic students. Then someone asked if there would any difference in test scores between rich and poor students. He doubled down and said that in twenty years that gap would be eliminated too.

Everyone clapped and looked so proud of themselves for being in a society where this could happen.

Do YOU think there will be a time in your life where all races and income levels will be equal in academic performance?
Maybe on paper when they finish dumbing everything down, but in reality, the differences will always be there. It will, of course, take the disastrous results before people get it through their thick skulls that not all people are equal in skills and knowledge. That's reality, whether they like it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
I agree with this to a point, but I would like to share the experience I had with my adopted son. He came into our home at the age of three as a foster child and was estimated to have an IQ of about 75, and this was "confirmed" a couple of months later at our local Children's Hospital.

After being with him as a SAHM for weeks and spending almost every waking hour with him and his two-years-older sister, I knew that he was not "slow", but just lazy. (For example, at his preschool, his teacher said he could only count to three, but when I told him he could have as many pennies as he could count, he counted to about 17, if memory serves. The problem, was that his sister had taken care of him and did everything for him -- his bio mom had severely neglected him due to her drug addiction -- and he was just unmotivated. It was like, "Why should I answer your stupid questions when there's nothing in it for me?")

Long story short, he was reading Harry Potter books at the end of the second grade, and his vocabulary was tested at the 91st percentile in the fourth grade. All it took was someone to work with him and not just take the supposed experts' word for it that he wasn't very intelligent. He also went on to get all A's and B's in his high school math tests, although he refused to do any homework; and he scored in the 90th percentile on the ASVAB. (The Armed Forces vocational aptitude test.)

He died at the age of 19, so we will never know what he could have achieved.
I agree with this. A lot of it is genetic, but you can improve with some hard work and dedication. It does not mean, however, that I will understand everything as well as someone else, because again, genetics. Some subjects I'm naturally really good in, and others...not so much.

I was also adopted, and when I came to my adopted family at 4, I'd had no education at all, not even the little bits that people teach their kids before going off to kindergarten. So kindergarten was not easy for me. (Yes, yes, make all the jokes you want people, it had everything to do with my environment at the time.) I almost failed because I was so far behind the other kids who had parents who actually cared about them. My mom, (adopted mom) however, had been a teacher before we all came along, then went to substitute teaching, and would later on become a full time teacher again after we were old enough. So, she wasn't about to allow me to fail. She introduced me to reading almost immediately after I was adopted, but I had a hard time with words that I should have known at that age. They (parents) spent time with me as I read out loud from my Curious George books or my Dr. Seuss books, and would help me with words I just couldn't get. I remember, still, one word that stumped me for a long time in one of the Curious George books: It was "contented". I could not grasp what that meant even when they told me what it meant. (Considering where I came from, that might have had a bit to do with that.) I didn't know or understand words like "blizzard", for example. So I had a lot of work to do to catch up, and my parents were right there, making sure that I did catch up. Because reading was introduced to me in such a positive way, it became something I loved. Still love it to this day. I'm one of those who devours books, and do not understand those who say they hate reading.

I did catch up, and by the time I was in the 3rd grade, I was in advanced classes for reading, spelling, English, etc. They did their job, I did my work, while frustrating at times, it was enjoyable overall, and I can't thank them enough for their perseverance through it all. But, again, it doesn't mean that I'm also going to be able to easily grasp other concepts, and that's okay. We are all different, we are not all equal, we all have strong qualities, and we all have weaknesses.

I do not understand why people fight against this very natural thing.

Last edited by Three Wolves In Snow; 11-28-2018 at 01:04 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-28-2018, 12:53 PM
 
77,970 posts, read 60,134,595 times
Reputation: 49330
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I wasn't surprised. I just asked about who the speaker was and what the event was.

IMO it is interesting that all of you are "going with" the OP's summation when they could be easily making it up. Also elected officials always lie and aren't educators or superintendents. I don't take anything a politician says as the truth.

On your link, it did not say that that superintendent claimed he would close the gap completely. This is why I asked the OP to provide information. I've seen many superintendents make lofty speeches/goals about closing gaps but never that they would be closed completely in 20 years. Also, it is interesting that your article mentioned the PARCC test as there was a big hoopla in my state a few years ago when PARCC came here primarily because it was a completely electronic/PC based test and our kids were used to do doing paper tests and not familiar with using the PC (especially not 8 year olds, they could not type well or use the mouse since most kids use a tablet efficiently only at that age). Not sure if that was/is the case in MA where the article is from but our state got rid of the PARCC test mostly because it was found that the lack of familiarity with the format of the test was a main reason why all students did worse on it versus the previous test (which your article stated as well - it stated black students in that district did well on the previous test and that both black and white students received much lower scores on PARCC if technological proficiency was a reason, black students would fare worse since in the district, per your article they are more poverty stricken and more than likely don't have a PC with a keyboard/mouse at home and if they don't get daily practice with it - which my daughter's school now does BTW - then they may even have been timed out of the test and not able to complete it on a higher level than white students. Testing scores often have more to do with other factors versus the academic arsenal of the student or their cognitive ability in regards to the material being tested).

And the thread did turn into a racial bashing sort of fest like these usually do.

As a black American, I honestly feel that black people shouldn't even pay attention to any sorts of test results. There has been a longstanding concerted historical effort for 500 years to "prove" (via various methods) the inferiority of black/African ancestored people. I'm comfortable with the fact that many people are heavily invested in these racial superiority beliefs and due to that IMO there is nothing black people can do to counter those heavily entrenched beliefs so we should just not buy into or really put much effort into proving anything to anyone about our intelligence. It's stupid IMO to continue to do so and reminds me of the fact that racial superiority ideologies are primarily based upon delusions since biologically we are not very different at all. It is a psychological issue of the person who holds the delusions and IMO there is no point in seriously trying to prove anything to a delusional individual - they are prone to paranoia and delusions and just like with an addicted or mentally ill person, as an "outsider" of sorts, there is nothing I can do to help that person overcome their delusional issues. IMO black people as a collective need to stop investing so much in what white people think of us or our intelligence. IMO that is the 2nd most important "issue" we have as a demographic - that we seek too much acceptance from society instead of just being okay with being black and recognizing people who have inferiority complexes about us are the problems, not us.
1) My public school system makes computer resources available to all students to combat economic disparity. Starts in gradeschool. Great program.

2) While some may use spurious things like IQ tests to try to make racial statements, that doesn't change the fact that math is colorblind. You can't just wave your hand a crappy scores on math exams because it means you haven't developed that skill. Just like if you want a job operating a crane or playing the piano and you suck at it...well there's no making excuses for that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 01:27 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,764 posts, read 40,072,877 times
Reputation: 18068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Specific Point View Post
In 20 years there will be no gap in testing scores between Black, White, Asian and Hispanic students

Do YOU think there will be a time in your life where all races and income levels will be equal in academic performance?
It's not about the race of the student, it's about the culture that they have been raised it!!!

If you could take black and Latino children and completely immerse them in a Jewish or Asian community, and with no exposure to black or Latino culture influences, then I have no doubt that those black and Latino children would become amazing students and score highly on these tests.

The problem is that black children get distracted from academic studies because they want to be like other blacks, so they then talk with an ebonic dialect, and mimic the black celebrities that they admire most. And unfortunately, they love their rap music and all the dramas between the Chris Browns and Rihannas. And the Latinos love their pop culture icons too. And yes, because of slave history, blacks don't want to seem as acting "white". However Obama became president because he acting "white" and was married. And he did the "white" thing by going to college and then onto Harvard Law school.

In these modern times, some cultures just aren't very competitive anymore.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 02:10 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,772,069 times
Reputation: 8442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
1) My public school system makes computer resources available to all students to combat economic disparity. Starts in gradeschool. Great program.

2) While some may use spurious things like IQ tests to try to make racial statements, that doesn't change the fact that math is colorblind. You can't just wave your hand a crappy scores on math exams because it means you haven't developed that skill. Just like if you want a job operating a crane or playing the piano and you suck at it...well there's no making excuses for that.

1 - that's great but my school system doesn't. We are a district with a high amount of lower to working class people and they claim they don't have the resources to provide technology programs on a large scale. Note - my daughter is in the 4th grade. She was expected to type a 5 paragraph essay for a standardized test last year!! She had to finish it within 45 minutes. A lot of 8 year olds cannot type let alone type a 5 paragraph essay with a time limit. My daughter did poorly on that assessment because she couldn't type fast enough. I bought a typing program and so now she can type 40 words per minute, which is fast enough to get done and she's now in the 96th percentile for writing.


2 - math can also be impacted by lack of PC skills in a standardized testing environment. You can take off the number lock button and F up an entire test if you don't know any better. Also if they can't use a mouse efficiently and are timed, it can impact the score if you are expected to use them on the exam. Note, a large amount of my family are educators. I remember when the PARCC was given and they spoke a lot about the fact that more than half the kids didn't know how to use a mouse in 3rd grade and that it slowed them down. They could write/do the math by hand/on paper but would take a long time to click through the screens and many failed/did poorly due to not knowing how to get through the screens and the kids would get frustrated.


Will note on my mentioning to not pay attention to test scores, I meant standardized test scores that seek to portray black people as dumber than white people. Sorry but whites in America have been doing this for 400 years and it is silly of us to think that anything we do will change that perception so I encourage others to look at class assessments and the curriculum their kids are doing (or take them out of school and homeschool - which I've also considered doing but didn't cause my kid didn't want to - mostly because he knows I'm "harder than school" - they do a semi-homeshcool in the summer and I am MUCH harder than school)


I actually value the scores on an individual basis, especially those that show a needed math skill, for instance, is lacking for that student. I'm a weird parent of sorts as I feel that tests should occur every quarter to measure progress and accumulation of skills in major subjects (reading, writing, math, and science). But I just don't think that the "racial gap" discussions are fruitful or serve any purpose other than to encourage delusional people to get on a "white/Asian" pedestal and act like the scores of smart white and Asian people makes them better than blacks or Hispanics. It's silly. And IMO you cannot cure 400 years of social racism, which heavily impacted the education of the parents of the children in school today, in 30 years.



But you can see where we as a demographic were at 30 years ago and try to do better on skills every 5 years. Black people 30-40 years ago were primarily struggling and working while whites had the time to relax and interact with children (other than read to me my parents never did anything with me at all - I did have a lot of "enrichment" at school though due to being pegged as "gifted" after they initially thought I was "retarded" lol). So when it comes to culture, I think of that (especially how ludicrous it is to tell a black person to "work hard"), since I know black people and our culture - how we have a lot of remnants psychologically as well when it comes to dealing with being seen as perpetually inferior and blocked from our aspirations. That takes a toll on people's mindsets and increases stress/cortisol levels. Studies do show that black people are highly stressed, we deal with stress a bit better but the chemical reaction in someone's body does impact their cognitive ability, especially children who grow up in stressful environments and a large amount of black children in the past especially suffered from PTSD symptoms, including myself when I was younger. I am nearly 40 years old. I and nearly every black person I know grew up in a stressful environment and it takes a lot to calm that down for the next generation. I fully expect that within 2 more generations we will be much better off educationally and in median income, but to do that quicker, IMO for our well beings it is imperative we stop trying to be like white people. In the past it was integration - moving to white areas and sending our kids to white schools (this is still something that many black parents think is better - I don't believe this personally and would never send my kid to an homogeneously white school). Today there is a focus on "closing gaps" with white people. I could care less about this and IMO more black people should care less about it and focus on their families well beings, the quality of their schools/teachers and their communities and stop investing themselves in this competition with whites.

Last edited by residinghere2007; 11-28-2018 at 02:36 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 02:12 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,772,069 times
Reputation: 8442
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
It's not about the race of the student, it's about the culture that they have been raised it!!!

If you could take black and Latino children and completely immerse them in a Jewish or Asian community, and with no exposure to black or Latino culture influences, then I have no doubt that those black and Latino children would become amazing students and score highly on these tests.

The problem is that black children get distracted from academic studies because they want to be like other blacks, so they then talk with an ebonic dialect, and mimic the black celebrities that they admire most. And unfortunately, they love their rap music and all the dramas between the Chris Browns and Rihannas. And the Latinos love their pop culture icons too. And yes, because of slave history, blacks don't want to seem as acting "white". However Obama became president because he acting "white" and was married. And he did the "white" thing by going to college and then onto Harvard Law school.

In these modern times, some cultures just aren't very competitive anymore.

You are hilarious with your racist posts!!



Seriously this is good stuff for if I want to create some sort of crazy Asian racist character in a sitcom
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Cali
14,135 posts, read 4,519,744 times
Reputation: 8233
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
You are hilarious with your racist posts!!



Seriously this is good stuff for if I want to create some sort of crazy Asian racist character in a sitcom
Is it more racist than Harvard's personality test to reject Asian applicants?
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...nality/563198/


Quote:
One of the most striking revelations pertains to Harvard’s consideration of applicants’ soft skills—things like “likability,†“helpfulness,†“integrity,†and “courageâ€â€”in determining their acceptance. Despite boasting higher test scores, better grades, and stronger extracurricular resumes than applicants of any other racial group, Asian American applicants consistently received lower rankings on those personality traits, according to a statistical analysis conducted on behalf of SFFA of more than 160,000 student records. This emphasis on personality, the analysis concludes, significantly undermined otherwise-qualified Asian Americans’ chances of getting in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 02:24 PM
 
16,364 posts, read 8,451,445 times
Reputation: 19215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Specific Point View Post
I attended an event where the superintendent of schools spoke to the community. He was talking about the differences between various ethnic groups in academic test results. He told the audience that he firmly believed that in 20 years that there would be no difference in academic performance and test scores between Black, White, Asian and Hispanic students. Then someone asked if there would any difference in test scores between rich and poor students. He doubled down and said that in twenty years that gap would be eliminated too.

Everyone clapped and looked so proud of themselves for being in a society where this could happen.

Do YOU think there will be a time in your life where all races and income levels will be equal in academic performance?
I have not read a single reply and don't need to.

Most pie in the sky liberals who want equality of outcomes dream of such a "Utopia", even if said results required smarter students (of any race) to be dumbed down to a level other student could achieve with maximum effort.
Pragmatic and logical conservatives and moderates realize intelligence and God given ability varies from individual to individual, regardless of race, income, etc.
Unlike the unrealistic liberals, they want an even playing field where everyone can compete fairly, thus they have equality of opportunity, not an equality of outcome.

I have often wondered why these same liberals do not apply the same hope/dream toward physical ability among the races.
Would this same person believe in 20 years that all races and/or both genders run as fast, jump as high, swim as long, skate as well, etc., etc., etc. ?
Or do they accept on some level the science of physiological differences among races or genders?

If so, why can't they accept that maybe the brains capacity (for better or worse) is different between races as well?

`
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 02:39 PM
 
16,212 posts, read 10,772,069 times
Reputation: 8442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Du Ma View Post
Is it more racist than Harvard's personality test to reject Asian applicants?
https://www.theatlantic.com/educatio...nality/563198/

Yes, it is more racist lol....


Asians are one of the highest demographically represented groups at Harvard BTW and most of their
losses there go to whites, not any other ethnic minority. Honestly, I could care less about Harvard. You can go to another school. I'll note that IMO that many Asian's fascination with attending these sorts of Ivy league schools kinda wreaks as well of seeing whites and their institutions as "better" than Asian ones, especially those that come from Asian countries here when they can get an education in their own country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Cali
14,135 posts, read 4,519,744 times
Reputation: 8233
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Yes, it is more racist lol....


Asians are one of the highest demographically represented groups at Harvard BTW and most of their
losses there go to whites, not any other ethnic minority. Honestly, I could care less about Harvard. You can go to another school. I'll note that IMO that many Asian's fascination with attending these sorts of Ivy league schools kinda wreaks as well of seeing whites and their institutions as "better" than Asian ones, especially those that come from Asian countries here when they can get an education in their own country.
so your logic is it's OK to apply stereotype for one group (i.e. all Asians are nerdy antisocial socially inept) but it is not OK for another group (i.e. all black people want to be the next Snoop Dog)?




When I said "Asian applicants" in my other post, I wasn't talking about Asian-Asians, I was talking about Asian-Americans.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-28-2018, 03:52 PM
 
4,337 posts, read 1,539,479 times
Reputation: 2279
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
What do you consider to be the definition of "intelligence."

.
Kinda like asking what the definition of "is", is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top