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View Poll Results: Are you opposed to getting a flu shot?
Yes 94 38.06%
No 153 61.94%
Voters: 247. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-18-2018, 02:27 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,861,355 times
Reputation: 18148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
There are no laws requiring vaccines anywhere in the US. There are no mandatory requirements for health care workers. There are no fines or jail terms for people who do not vaccinate, as there are in some European countries.

Canada has a recommended immunization schedule as well. It also recommends flu vaccine for everyone and specifically for health care workers.
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...-children.html
https://www.canada.ca/en/public-heal...7-2018.html#a3
Yes there are. My neighbor has successfully avoided the flu shot until this year. This year she was told: Get the shot or lose your job. She got the shot. Oh, and she's an RN. She has her own health reasons for not wanting it.

When you have to threaten healthcare workers to get a flu shot, there are MAJOR problems with the flu shot. Not the healthcare workers.

 
Old 12-18-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,273,714 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Got one today. Last year they completely missed in their guess. hopefully they will be more accurate. Sometimes I get pretty sick from the shot. That is normal. They tell you when you get it, if you get a fever up to 103 just take some Advil or tylenol. If you get a fever of 104 call them or go to urgent care. They also tell you that you may get mild flu like symptoms for 2-5 days.

Worth it if it prevents not so mild flu like symptoms. Sometimes it probably does.

At our work we get asked if we have had a flu shot. If we say no, they get annoyed. they do not want us spreading flu around or missing work. If we get sick a lot or for several days, then they are likely to ask again.
No, no, no and NO!

The main flu in circulation last year was H3N2 which vaccine was included in the shot. H3N2 is a difficult flu to make a vaccine for, for many reasons. Later in the season, influenza B was more dominant. This is typical. There were 1 or 2 B strains in the vaccine, depending on what vaccine you received. For some reason, this urban legend will not die, and even some health care professionals believe it.
https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-...fluupdate.html
WHO Strain Recommendations for 2017-18 Flu Vaccine
 
Old 12-18-2018, 02:51 PM
 
21,382 posts, read 7,861,355 times
Reputation: 18148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
No, no, no and NO!

The main flu in circulation last year was H3N2 which vaccine was included in the shot. H3N2 is a difficult flu to make a vaccine for, for many reasons. Later in the season, influenza B was more dominant. This is typical. There were 1 or 2 B strains in the vaccine, depending on what vaccine you received. For some reason, this urban legend will not die, and even some health care professionals believe it.
https://www.aafp.org/news/health-of-...fluupdate.html
WHO Strain Recommendations for 2017-18 Flu Vaccine
Or you can just say that the shot has very poor efficacy. If you prefer. Result is the same, it doesn't work. /shrug/
 
Old 12-18-2018, 02:54 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,441,825 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaylenwoof View Post
In the long run, science is mostly self-correcting. I would not want to claim that science is the only route to knowledge, and I certainly acknowledge that fraud and various sorts of cultural blindness can sometimes derail scientific progress for a decade or more. And I agree with Bill Maher in the video that someone posted earlier when he says we ought to question things - including scientific consensus. And, if someone (like Bill Maher) is specifically avoiding just the flu vax and is not an "anti-vaxer" in general, then I respect their position, even if I don't agree with it.

But, in general, when there is a scientific consensus and a bunch of non-scientists reject the consensus view, they carry a huge burden of proof. On the flu vax, I have not yet seen enough to convince me that the consensus is wrong. Worthy of questioning - yes - but, so far, that's all. Anecdotal stories of some people getting the flu after getting a flu shot is nowhere near close to counting against the vax. (As we all know, the vax for any given year does not contain all strains and, if you are already infected by the time you get the shot, the vax won't work, even if it is one of the strains covered by the vax.)

If/when properly conducted experiments with statistically significant samples sizes show a lack of effectiveness, or that it does more harm than good, I will change my tune.

A bit long-winded, but if you feel up to it, give it a read.

I think most of us on here are in your camp. I agree with most of what you have said. I do understand how some who dig deep into the flu vaccine to find answers and find a pretty large wall to climb to get real answers to start doubting the science, in reality, the company hiring the scientists.

For example, you look into reported side effects to the flu vaccine and you find VAERS after sifting through a lot. You find thousands of reports on VAERS, and about 15% of them are serious. The information is there, but sort of hidden in plain sight. It takes a lot of work to find these reports and although doctors are advised to report them, a lot of doctors do not.

One of the odd things about the VAERS system is the mass underreporting of adverse effects, this can lead to a false sense security in vaccine safety and an erroneous assumption for most people that the benefits of vaccination really outweigh the risks, which most assume is just the old "sore" arm.

What does the CDC say about the VAERS system? Our Passive surveillance systems, VAERS is subject to multiple limitations, underreporting, reporting of temporal associations and unconfirmed diagnoses, a lack of denominator data and unbiased comparison groups. So because of these limitations, determining causal associations between vaccines and adverse events from VAERS reports in most cases are not possible.

The institution of medicine has been telling them for years that they need to fix the inadequate information and none in some cases. So, they went to another system trial with Pilgrim Healthcare, Harvard. Out of only 376,452 individuals that received a vaccine at Pligram, their automated system identified 35,570 possible adverse reactions in three years. Compare that to the 30,000 VAERS was reporting for the entire United States a year and there is a serious discrepancy. VAERS was severely underreporting.

Then you might wonder why do they have VAERS? Why not just complain to the company? Well, now it gets interesting. When a vaccine is properly prepared and is accompanied by proper directions and warnings, lawsuits over its side effects are not allowed under the 1986 law.

So, in laymen's terms, you can't sue the drug company. Even if your child has had a seizure from the vaccine and has a lifetime of suffering from it, you're out of luck. They can't be touched and we have a "special" vaccine court and they fund a "special" compensation program for vaccine injuries. They avoid costly litigation this way, well great, but wait, that leaves no incentive to make the product better.

So, now things are sounding a bit more creepy. It goes on and on, you start to wonder why they make it so difficult. Then, you weigh out what advantages vs risks for yourself and get the deed done.

Most leave the experience with a normal bit of skepticism, but some leave it and become anti-vax. It depends on the individual, and how much they dig up, and how they interpret it.

Those who promote it by bashing others, blaming others and demanding mandates to save the children have the same problem as those who refuse to give it a chance. I avoid both camps if I can because obsessing one way or the other tells me more about the person than their advice.
 
Old 12-18-2018, 02:55 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,441,825 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Yes there are. My neighbor has successfully avoided the flu shot until this year. This year she was told: Get the shot or lose your job. She got the shot. Oh, and she's an RN. She has her own health reasons for not wanting it.

When you have to threaten healthcare workers to get a flu shot, there are MAJOR problems with the flu shot. Not the healthcare workers.
Brilliant! My thoughts exactly.
 
Old 12-18-2018, 02:55 PM
 
14,880 posts, read 8,495,489 times
Reputation: 7316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Got one today. Last year they completely missed in their guess. hopefully they will be more accurate. Sometimes I get pretty sick from the shot. That is normal. They tell you when you get it, if you get a fever up to 103 just take some Advil or tylenol. If you get a fever of 104 call them or go to urgent care. They also tell you that you may get mild flu like symptoms for 2-5 days.

Worth it if it prevents not so mild flu like symptoms. Sometimes it probably does.

At our work we get asked if we have had a flu shot. If we say no, they get annoyed. they do not want us spreading flu around or missing work. If we get sick a lot or for several days, then they are likely to ask again.
Sorry ... nothing normal about injecting viruses and poisons into your body deliberately, causing fevers and flu like symptoms, or believing this is “healthy”.

It’s like taking an aspirin for a headache, when the side effect causes headaches.

But it does demonstrate how people can be convinced to do the craziest things ..
 
Old 12-18-2018, 03:04 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,441,825 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Got one today. Last year they completely missed in their guess. hopefully they will be more accurate. Sometimes I get pretty sick from the shot. That is normal. They tell you when you get it, if you get a fever up to 103 just take some Advil or tylenol. If you get a fever of 104 call them or go to urgent care. They also tell you that you may get mild flu like symptoms for 2-5 days.

Worth it if it prevents not so mild flu like symptoms. Sometimes it probably does.

At our work we get asked if we have had a flu shot. If we say no, they get annoyed. they do not want us spreading flu around or missing work. If we get sick a lot or for several days, then they are likely to ask again.
Last year I ran a temp for two days and ached for four or more after mine.

Yeah, this is why people claim to get the flu from the shot. From most perspectives they do feel like they have the flu, at least their body reacts similarly to having the flu. High fever, flu-like symptoms. So, when they tell people their crazy for thinking they got the flu from the shot they're puzzled. lol Their body reacted the way it would to the flu because the shot has now tricked the body into thinking it has the flu. Some get this reaction for a day, some two, three or four. They now feel like they gave themselves the flu. If it walks like a duck......

*Unfortunately, they are still telling people to pop an Advil, even those with heart problems and high blood pressure which isn't great advice.
 
Old 12-18-2018, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
7,195 posts, read 5,688,291 times
Reputation: 12337
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Yes there are. My neighbor has successfully avoided the flu shot until this year. This year she was told: Get the shot or lose your job. She got the shot. Oh, and she's an RN. She has her own health reasons for not wanting it.

When you have to threaten healthcare workers to get a flu shot, there are MAJOR problems with the flu shot. Not the healthcare workers.
I've had healthcare workers, including nurses, tell me some pretty insane things, so I wouldn't necessarily say that one nurse insisting that she doesn't want a flu shot because of "health reasons" and then getting the shot after all really means anything at all.

Interesting that you don't believe the vast majority of doctors and other healthcare providers who advise their patients to get a flu shot but you do believe one random nurse who didn't want to get one (but wasn't so opposed to it that she would quit her job once told that that was a condition of employment).

Everyone can do what they want, but when they say things like, "nobody knows what's in them," or "people are dropping dead from getting a flu shot," or "I caught the flu from the flu shot," it's obvious that they don't really know what they're talking about in the slightest.
 
Old 12-18-2018, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Florida
7,195 posts, read 5,688,291 times
Reputation: 12337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokinouta View Post
Last year I ran a temp for two days and ached for four or more after mine.

Yeah, this is why people claim to get the flu from the shot. From most perspectives they do feel like they have the flu, at least their body reacts similarly to having the flu. High fever, flu-like symptoms. So, when they tell people their crazy for thinking they got the flu from the shot they're puzzled. lol Their body reacted the way it would to the flu because the shot has now tricked the body into thinking it has the flu. Some get this reaction for a day, some two, three or four. They now feel like they gave themselves the flu. If it walks like a duck......

*Unfortunately, they are still telling people to pop an Advil, even those with heart problems and high blood pressure which isn't great advice.
If you had the flu, you'd be down for the count for a week or more. You wouldn't have had a fever for two days and a sore arm for four. The vaccine causes an immune reaction, which can cause a fever and blood rushing to the area. Sometimes a headache. It doesn't give you full-blown flu symptoms. And if you do get full-blown flu symptoms, you caught a virus (maybe the flu, maybe not) before getting the shot. Or maybe in the waiting room, since it takes the vaccine two weeks to really kick in and be effective.
 
Old 12-18-2018, 03:20 PM
 
3,458 posts, read 1,441,825 times
Reputation: 1755
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
If you had the flu, you'd be down for the count for a week or more. You wouldn't have had a fever for two days and a sore arm for four. The vaccine causes an immune reaction, which can cause a fever and blood rushing to the area. Sometimes a headache. It doesn't give you full-blown flu symptoms. And if you do get full-blown flu symptoms, you caught a virus (maybe the flu, maybe not) before getting the shot. Or maybe in the waiting room, since it takes the vaccine two weeks to really kick in and be effective.
Thanks, hon, but I already knew that one but with one correction, some people get those side effects longer, and some recover from the flu quicker. So it's relative.

If you get the flu once every 5 years and are down for two weeks, or you get the flu shot yearly and are down for two days it doesn't really matter anymore does it? You feel either way.

It depends on the person, not just the virus, or the vaccine. It depends on how that person reacts to both.

Last edited by CaseyB; 12-18-2018 at 07:04 PM..
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