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I don't see that article as a fair unbiased look at anything. It is more of an attack on Conservative Corporatism while trying to paint Libertarianism with the same broad brush.
It does one thing though. It shows that people are not going to willingly go backwards. The majority may claim they want less but rebel when they actually get less.
As an aside, I recall when Colorado SPrings was known for it's hippies. What happened?
The reason why you don't view the piece as I do is likely because we view the ideology differently.
This is more similar to how I see it:
Quote:
Libertarians have a problem. Their political philosophy all but died out in the mid- to late-20th century, but was revived by billionaires and corporations that found them politically useful. And yet libertarianism retains the qualities that led to its disappearance from the public stage, before its reanimation by people like the Koch brothers: It doesn’t make any sense.
They call themselves “realists” but rely on fanciful theories that have never predicted real-world behavior. They claim that selfishness makes things better for everybody, when history shows exactly the opposite is true. They claim that a mythical “free market” is better at everything than the government is, yet when they really need government protection, they’re the first to clamor for it.
That’s no reason not to work with them on areas where they’re in agreement with people like me. In fact, the unconventionality of their thought has led libertarians to be among this nation’s most forthright and outspoken advocates for civil liberties and against military interventions.
Nobody gets hostile at that. You are hitting on a very small percentage of something. It would be like me walking past someone and say "peace" and pretending their response was hostile to my beliefs.
The discussion comes in when asked to explain how exactly in a country of 330 million the rest of your beliefs would work and there is no workable answer.
There is theory and then there is reality. Someone once argued that they simply wanted to move society closer to their theory. Nothing wrong with that. That is what everyone does but it's only going to go so far.
"How can X possibly be done if societal rules apply to everyone equally?"
Why not flesh this out some? (As I said upthread, my heart is not really in this discussion.)
My point is that if you want to see the effects of Libertarians holding power, look at two states where they did hold power: New Mexico and Massachusetts, where the 2016 Libertarian nominees were governors (although they were Republicans at the time, their views haven't really changed). Both states did well economically and in neither did those two governors try to effect crazy/offbeat policies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiGeekGuest
The reason why you don't view the piece as I do is likely because we view the ideology differently.
Biased a bit? I don't care for corporate influence on politics, or the Koch brothers, yet I'm a Libertarian, and I joined the party largely out of disgust with Donald Trump.
One could also say that the policies of today's Democratic Party were largely discredited by the failures of Communism in Eastern Europe, until they were revived by millennials such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who has no living memories of them. How's that?
Larry, Curly, Moe, and Winterfall all share the same squat. They hold a meeting and decide to rotate dish washing duties daily. So Larry then Curly, then Moe, then Winterfall.
This works fine for a while, until people start skipping days, because you know, protesting the risk to the Siberian Jackalope by Russian Arctic oil exploration was more important, soon Larry, Curly and Moe are not doing dishes at all, but dutiful Bolshevik Winterfall does his duty.
You saying Larry, Curly and Moe are not profiting? Isn't in truth the single most tangible currency time, the time you spend doing tasks or distractions, because it's a finite resource, from birth to death is all you get, and if you spend 5% of your life washing dishes, just think how much time you've wasted, how much currency you've spent, if you can't find someone to wash those dishes that's 5% overall, but we spend 33% asleep, so its actually 7.5% of your disposable time.
Winterfall calls an emergency committee meeting, to discuss the dishes situation, everyone agrees they've been lax, and they'll work on fixing the issue. And they do for a couple of weeks and soon Comrade Winterfall is again sole bottlewasher.
So Winterfall strikes, picketing the flatware cabinet until his rights are restored. One night while sleeping, he finds Larry Curly and Moe eating cereal from paper bowls they'd smuggled in and hoarded. The plan became clear, when dishes were available they used them first, then switched to paper. Muzhik Winterfall had been had.
That's just a simple scenario, where the willing end up serving the unwilling, and there's no profit in being willing.
This is a nice theory, but it relies on your belief that people are determined to exert the least out of themselves that is possible.
In the modern day that theory is promoted as it is supported by the financial system that punishes the lack of money holding.
Unfortunately that is not the basis of human interaction, humans are not mathematical corporate bodies looking for the most efficient possible cost/reward basis for every action. If it were like that then you wouldn’t have societies from the Mayans to the Eskimos who for thousands of years operated on the basis of mutual aid.
You forget that finance isn’t the only form of credit, there is also social credit amongst other forms. Mutual Aid requires more variables to come into decision making than those directly involved. Read Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution.
Furthermore participation is part of interaction. If a group of people don’t work well together then they break up and find those that work better for them. Material is temporal, and people break from them if society was brought up around the reserved wealth within material and it’s investment value; things can be lived or sentimental, but they shouldn’t be a source of slavery as money is required to be free in your society.
I think they are naive and chose to be willfully ignorant of the human experience.
I'm not a member of any party and am a black American woman who is a humanist and I'd rather my kids date a socialist or an uber conservative than a Libertarian lol.
I think of all the political affiliations that they and communists are the worse and I wouldn't be able to hide my dissatisfaction with a SO of my kids (or really anyone in my family as I have had some uncomfortable conversations with dates of family members who proclaim to be a Libertarian as if it is a great thing to be - note the few who've I spoken to in this manner turned out they were not Libertarians, they were just jumping on a bandwagon of thinking since they don't align with any particular political party that they must be a Libertarian, or they were a conservative but when pressed about if they ascribe to particular Libertarian tenets, of which I educated them about, they backed down).
Right, wanting everyone to be free from slavery is despicable.
As I said, plenty of people seek to enslave others.
It's still strange to me how hostile people get when you tell them their life is their own, and as long as they aren't attacking or stealing from others, they have the right to live their life in peace, or however they choose. It's their life. You'd think that would be an easy sell...
Plenty of people love to enslave others from the way how you should think to how you should use your genitals. They are more interested in dictating your life than caring about their own.
Bro, if you understand this go ahead and follow the logic all the way through. You won't turn into a goblin or something. We did it. Still alive & kicking and unhappily funding the murders of brown babies halfway around the globe as has been preordained by our omnipotent rulers.
Just like Gungnir told ya a few pages back: you know the answer...you're just too uncomfortable to accept it.
Don't be content and/or outright support the social contract if you can't reconcile its flawed premise. Instead of having faceless centralized planning wreak havoc on the world be your own a-hole. Not only do you get use to it you also realize you're not so bad after all.
My point is that if you want to see the effects of Libertarians holding power, look at two states where they did hold power: New Mexico and Massachusetts, where the 2016 Libertarian nominees were governors (although they were Republicans at the time, their views haven't really changed). Both states did well economically and in neither did those two governors try to effect crazy/offbeat policies.
All I was saying is make your case. What were the specific libertarian policies, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuppiesandKittens
Biased a bit? I don't care for corporate influence on politics, or the Koch brothers, yet I'm a Libertarian, and I joined the party largely out of disgust with Donald Trump.
One could also say that the policies of today's Democratic Party were largely discredited by the failures of Communism in Eastern Europe, until they were revived by millennials such as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who has no living memories of them. How's that?
I was responding to the other member. This is one of the reasons my heart is no longer really in these types of discussions.
Have a nice day & a pleasant tomorrow.
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