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But you are putting all of the blame externally. People 'choose misery' all the time. For a lot of different reasons. In a lot of different ways. So, take my Hispanic friend. Maybe he refused to realize that his own failure to obtain a degree is why he didn't get promoted. But his ego defense was 'no, it's because I am Hispanic. They are racist'. Me: 'then why do we have a black manager?' I don't remember his answer to that.
Then other black people came and went. It was a tough businesses. We were sort of 'hazed'. The managers bent over backwards to not make anyone think they were racist. I told them they are going easier on you than anyone due to that. Look at ______. He's a manager! They are not racist! Suck it up. We all have to deal with it. Me most of all being female.
Nope, they left. Claiming racism. Whatever. Their choice. It was a good gig. That black manager now makes half a mil per year because he didn't have any time for that nonsense. He went to school, got a job, worked his ass off perfecting himself at that job, and rose and rose on his own steam.
The other guys got, in, their, own, way.
I am not putting all the blame on the external, when it comes to race. People do have internally rooted dysfunction. However, when one race is juxtaposed against the other, I do not believe that one race is more internally dysfunctional than another race. The gaps, therefore, between the two races outcomes I would attribute to difference in external stimuli, but of course, every group have internal dysfunction.
It most certainly IS the question. The premise here seems to be that only black people are asked to prove they are allowed to be where they are. My experience and that of other white people who also had to do so under similar circumstances disproves that.
You do not have a shred of evidence that this hotel is stuck in the 1920s and doesn't know how to cope with a black guest.
What we DO have evidence of, is that when asked, he refused to provide his room number and became hostile at having been asked to begin with and/or for having his conversation interrupted to do so.
This man knows how to behave in a hotel. He is AWARE that often, employees want to make sure that people using hotel amenities are asked if they are a guest!
He acted like an a-hole, made a disturbance, and this is the result when one does that. Police get called to remove the disturbance.
So kind of like the premise that only black people have children out of wedlock or kind of like only black people kill their own...aka...black on black crime, etc. When whites complain about these things or bring them up, its void of any mention of whites kids born out of wedlock or white on white crime. However, I understand this focus is not suggesting that whites don't have kids born out of wedlock or that whites don't commit crime against whites. Right? Therefore, why can't people like you understand that no one is saying that these things happen exclusively to blacks, but likely disproportionately, like out of wedlock births? Why don't you use the same logic of proportionality?
All I am saying that the question is would a white person have been treated the same way by this security guard, kind of like would Travon Martin have been treated the same way if he were white.
We live in a country of almost 330 million people. If the only evidence of racism or blacks acting stupid, is what we see in the media, then there is little evidence either way. I mean, think about it. There are 330 million people in this country. How many videos of racist incidents do we see in the news yearly? If there was one such incident a day that would be one incident per million people, which is an egregious sampling error to make any claims about racism or anything else.
What people need to do is LOOK AT THE STUDIES AND RESEARCH that comes about about racism and racial attitudes and how prevalent it is or is not. Anyone basing or forming arguments based upon their personal experience or the experience of someone else seen in the media is getting a distorted view. These videos that pop up are not proof that racism is still a big issue in America. However, the studies and research done shows racism is still a big issue in America. When studies are done that shows resumes with black sounding names get rejected at twice the rate of resumes with white sounding names, all other information being about the same, that lets you know something about racism in America.
When I see stories like this.....I base my analysis of them largely off of general research about racism in America, the history of racism in America, and the details of the incident. Which leads me to believe that most of the incidents have a good probability of being influenced by race, but rarely is it ever a certainty because that would require the reading of peoples subconscious.
Perhaps everything in nature is based on probability.
And perhaps part of human psychology is that we tend to consciously or unconsciously take the “probability route” to arrive at certain assessments, and then take or not take actions.
Whether it’s right or wrong, is not the question, but this is how it generally works. IMO.
When general public sees stats where it’s indicated that a certain race commits a significantly higher # of crimes, then the “probability route” is impacted when it kicks in, and people base their, (perhaps bias in many occasions) actions against such a race.
I fully support that our thinking should be bias free and we should continue working hard to fix our pre-conceived stereotyping attitude, but it’s also very hard to act against our human psychology and human nature in general.
We all know from our day to day lives that there are many, many good black citizens who work hard to make an honest living, and they are also raising their families with good values, but at the same time there is an overwhelmingly high number of crime related stats that go against the black population.
So if blacks want to see a significantly decreased amount of racism against them then one way is to focus on your own communities and work towards producing more and more honest and educated citizens in a healthy environment - yes, it’s hard work but that’s the best way.
This requires to accept the ground realities and some bitter facts. And we have all seen this wise and brave pastor telling what could be true for many black communities - not all of them though.
You can ask the same thing for black people. What are black people supposed to do, just ignore acts by whites that maybe racially motivated? Maybe hotels need to give people stickers or tags that they can put on their cloths so that paying guest are not treated like vagrants. I would be pretty ticked off if I am a paying guest and get treated like I am some homeless person that needs to be kicked out.
You completely missed the point. Lol , I actually laughed out loud at this comment.
So anger justifies poor behavior now? Look, the law makes some provision for anger, for ongoing abuse, that sort of thing, but it doesn't EXCUSE rash actions done in the heat of the moment.
People understand being hypersensitive - we probably all are hypersensitive about something if we're honest. But let's please not use this to justify being a jerk.
And I'm not even saying Massey was being a jerk, though I'm not wowed by his people skills in the short video he posted of the interaction. Nor am I impressed with the manager or security guard when it comes to demeanor. But no one knows what happened immediately before Massey started the film rolling so there's that. I'm just responding to IndenturedServant's assertions that anger justifies poor behavior.
Like jencam and others have pointed out, this guy is a seasoned and apparently well heeled traveler. He knows how to carry himself in hotel lobbies. He also goes around TRYING to find instances he can film, instances he says are of black people being treated poorly. Wow, this one just fell right into his lap! Or was it at least in part contrived, or instigated, or inflamed, by him? It's a question that simply has to be asked. I mean, he doesn't want to be treated poorly because he's black, so surely he doesn't want to be given any sort of pass because he's black, does he?
Perhaps everything in nature is based on probability.
And perhaps part of human psychology is that we tend to consciously or unconsciously take the “probability route” to arrive at certain assessments, and then take or not take actions.
Whether it’s right or wrong, is not the question, but this is how it generally works. IMO.
When general public sees stats where it’s indicated that a certain race commits a significantly higher # of crimes, then the “probability route” is impacted when it kicks in, and people base their, (perhaps bias in many occasions) actions against such a race.
I fully support that our thinking should be bias free and we should continue working hard to fix our pre-conceived stereotyping attitude, but it’s also very hard to act against our human psychology and human nature in general.
We all know from our day to day lives that there are many, many good black citizens who work hard to make an honest living, and they are also raising their families with good values, but at the same time there is an overwhelmingly high number of crime related stats that go against the black population.
So if blacks want to see a significantly decreased amount of racism against them then one way is to focus on your own communities and work towards producing more and more honest and educated citizens in a healthy environment - yes, it’s hard work but that’s the best way.
This requires to accept the ground realities and some bitter facts. And we have all seen this wise and brave pastor telling what could be true for many black communities - not all of them though.
The fight against stereotyping and racism against blacks is a tough one, but if we want to fight it then it has two main fronts, IMO.
1 - Non-blacks should educate themselves as how human psychology works and think without bias when arriving at conclusions.
2 - Blacks should focus on improving their own communities to improve their image. Stats don’t lie! Get them in your favor.
So one generations racism results in deification on blacks and their communities and the subsequent generation then has grounds to stereotype blacks based upon the stench left over as the aftermath of being defecated on, which allows for the rationalization of current racism. That logic is called self perpetuating racism. Ergo, racism refueled and re-justified from the aftermath/reaction to that manifest from past racism.
Yes, you are correct in how the mind works. However, I don't think most people study statics on crime and what race commits them. I think that simply gets ingrained from media accounts of crime and yes, violent crime in the media tends to have a black face, which might comport with statistics.
Black people can't get themselves together short of black people targeting and focusing on other black people. Target and focus on blacks has the corollary of discriminating against other groups. Its the discrimination of opportunity cost. Every moment or dollar focused in one direction is a dollar or moment denied another direction. White racism will not allow this because white racism will claim double standards and that if blacks can favor and lift up blacks then whites should be allowed to legally favor and uplift whites, which is the situation that crippled blacks originally. America has ALWAYS feared black UNITY. Black UNITY is the CHANGE that will bring forth our progress at this point, but America fears black unity.
You don't fix problems without focused discrimination. If you break a leg.....you can't expect the leg to get better if you try to treat them the same. One leg, for a period of time, will have to get the special attention and care until it can support being treated like the other leg. Attempting to do that in America would fail because the other leg is white and would complain that the black leg deserves no more attention than it and should not be given special consideration. The white leg will tell stories of how when it was broken, just like the black leg, that it "healed itself" with no special attention, just hard work. It never limped our complained of pain.....so it says. It did not even need a caste or was ever immobilized.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 12-30-2018 at 04:04 PM..
So one generations racism results in deification on blacks and their communities and the subsequent generation then has grounds to stereotype blacks based upon the stench left over as the aftermath of being defecated on, which allows for the rationalization of current racism. That logic is called self perpetuating racism. Ergo, racism refueled and re-justified from the aftermath/reaction to that manifest from past racism.
Yes, you are correct in how the mind works. However, I don't think most people study statics on crime and what race commits them. I think that simply gets ingrained from media accounts of crime and yes, violent crime in the media tends to have a black face, which might comport with statistics.
Black people can't get themselves together short of black people targeting and focusing on other black people. Target and focus on blacks has the corollary of discriminating against other groups. Its the discrimination of opportunity cost. Every moment or dollar focused in one direction is a dollar or moment denied another direction. White racism will not allow this because white racism will claim double standards and that if blacks can favor and lift up blacks then whites should be allowed to legally favor and uplift whites, which is the situation that crippled blacks originally.
You don't fix problems without focused discrimination. If you break a leg.....you can't expect the leg to get better if you try to treat them the same. One leg, for a period of time, will have to get the special attention and care until it can support being treated like the other leg. Attempting to do that in America would fail because the other leg is white and would complain that the black leg deserves no more attention than it and should not be given special consideration.
Oh, to use your phrase - BULL SHIP! Or whatever that phrase was - I like bull ship so I hope I got that right.
I mean, you're ALMOST right because you are right on a lot of issues, but then you suddenly veer off into some alternative universe or something.
Here's the deal as I see it. Yes, African Americans have been treated unjustly by some white Americans for many decades in the past. (Also, many white Americans fought and died for the causes of African Americans but that's another story for another day.) For well over 100 years, and many generations, some white and black Americans have both worked to try to rectify the wrongs of past generations. And some white and black Americans have worked against progress for African Americans - not just white folks, black folks too.
Not a few years, a few GENERATIONS. Now yes, I do think that there are still left over effects of social injustice but my gosh, at some point that injured leg needs to be healed so we can walk. That injured leg has gotten a lot of attention now for several generations. It does NO GOOD to injure the other leg to "even the playing field," or however one justifies it. We need both legs to be healthy in order to stand tall together. BOTH legs. I'm actually glad you used that excellent metaphor as an example.
The problem is the video does not show the entire interaction, Massy could have gotten smart with the security guard or the manager. I swear some black people are brainwashed to believe any time a white person questions them it is racist.
Oh, to use your phrase - BULL SHIP! Or whatever that phrase was - I like bull ship so I hope I got that right.
I mean, you're ALMOST right because you are right on a lot of issues, but then you suddenly veer off into some alternative universe or something.
Here's the deal as I see it. Yes, African Americans have been treated unjustly by some white Americans for many decades in the past. (Also, many white Americans fought and died for the causes of African Americans but that's another story for another day.) For well over 100 years, and many generations, some white and black Americans have both worked to try to rectify the wrongs of past generations. And some white and black Americans have worked against progress for African Americans - not just white folks, black folks too.
Not a few years, a few GENERATIONS. Now yes, I do think that there are still left over effects of social injustice but my gosh, at some point that injured leg needs to be healed so we can walk. That injured leg has gotten a lot of attention now for several generations. It does NO GOOD to injure the other leg to "even the playing field," or however one justifies it. We need both legs to be healthy in order to stand tall together. BOTH legs. I'm actually glad you used that excellent metaphor as an example.
Your whole things seems to be about demonstrating that YOU and not all whites are racist. Why do you feel the need to say SOME white people, as if black people don't know that "white people" is not a claim against ALL white people? A claim that blacks were oppressed by white people is not the same as saying that ALL WHITE PEOPLE were complicit in the oppression of blacks. We are not STUPID, but you keep explaining things like we are. If a foreign press reported a headline that stated, "Americans elect Trump as their new president", would you then take that to mean that every American who voted voted for Trump? No. You would probably never think to correct that headline. Its implicitly understood not to mean that ALL AMERICANS voted for trump. Ergo, stop assuming we are STUPID and think ALL whites have been and are racist and that you need to PROVE this to us by showing that YOU are not racist and by noting the whites who died trying to defend or promote the black struggle.
Now, how are you qualified to say how long it should take the leg to heal or if it has gotten enough attention and proper care to heal? If one simply assumes that the two legs are EQUAL. Why assume that there is a problem with the leg other than the break? Why not assume that the treatment has been inadequate? Implicit in arguments like yours is the assumption of INFERIORITY. Our recovery, you believe, is inferior to what you would expect. I mean, what are you basing you belief that the leg should be healed now? What leg has set the standard for healing, based upon the kind of break that took place? You have no bases for comparison to say that blacks should be over it by now.
Last edited by Indentured Servant; 12-30-2018 at 04:50 PM..
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