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Old 01-02-2019, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Florida
76,992 posts, read 47,311,479 times
Reputation: 14787

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Naturally some on the left are having a fit about this, and trying to claim that it won't do any good, blah blah.
It seems they are just pointing out the fact that this is a part of Obamacare.

Had you known that, you would have opposed it saying that it won't do any good, blah blah..
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,498,517 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post



The whole thing is BS. The docs should bill thru the hospital and be part of whatever networks the hospital is in. There should be a single line item on any ER bill, "ER doctor" for how many docs you use when in the ER, there should be 1 charge, not 2 or 3.

Oddly, I worked with a woman who had 2 doctor children. One was an ER doc actually employed by the hospital. (What an uber mom, 3 kids, 2 doctors and 1 engineer. Yes she was from India)
My local hospital ( a part of a massive healthcare system) requires all third party providers / lease holders to be a part of the same networks the hospital participate in.

These providers however, continue to bill independent of the hospital.

We learned how many services that appear to be in hospital are actually being provided by affiliated third parties who lease space. This includes and is not limited to some outpatient surgical facilities, Cancer Treatment, Mamograms, X-ray, some lab services, etc.

Speculation on my part the diversification of independent affiliated providers may reduce a hospital’s financial exposure to deadbeats.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,498,517 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The nature of the ER and anesthesia beasts IME, is that the hospital hires an outside source to provide the staffing. And when the hospital admin and ER/anesth beasts meet, there will be hell to follow. And this happens on a perpetual hire/fire basis. So it is common to have these transient docs not in the network.

If it were me, and it has been, I would pizz and moan and not comply. I don't mind being taken to collection.

AZ recently passed some legislation providing for this sort of patient relief.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...lls/100852998/
50 states. Not all offer relief. Little to no consistency of legislation to those that do.

Beyond the 10 broad Essential Healthcare Benefits mandated by the ACA, the overwhelming responsibility for legislation and regulation continues to fall on each state. No shortage of national and state politicians and media that feeds off them who damn the ACA/ Obamacare, while conveniently ignoring the powerful role of each state.

Lobbying/ donating at the state level is big business, no diff than at the federal level. Does not matter which party controls state or federal government at any point in time.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:30 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
16,948 posts, read 12,500,388 times
Reputation: 8872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The nature of the ER and anesthesia beasts IME, is that the hospital hires an outside source to provide the staffing. And when the hospital admin and ER/anesth beasts meet, there will be hell to follow. And this happens on a perpetual hire/fire basis. So it is common to have these transient docs not in the network.

If it were me, and it has been, I would pizz and moan and not comply. I don't mind being taken to collection.

AZ recently passed some legislation providing for this sort of patient relief.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...lls/100852998/
In NJ, collection is short. At about 6 months you get garnishment without any pre hearing. Happened to my boss wfe in my 2nd job. BTW they took the WHOLE paycheck for X time IIRC about 4 months.

Also happened to another friend. After they took EVERYTHING, they would drag him into court twice a year just to harass him until it ran out on statue of limitations. He actually had insurance, but his wife had some kind of mega stroke that eventually killed her, then he had some kind of gut issue that capped his insurance. I still remember him saying something like, "What the heck am I supposed to do with a 750K bill?"
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:34 AM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,589,461 times
Reputation: 14048
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
. I still remember him saying something like, "What the heck am I supposed to do with a 750K bill?"
Well, to quote the "responsible right" the patients should have never accepted services they can't pay for.

"Let 'em die" was not a joke. It was truly the way they feel..."feel" being the operative word since when it comes to themselves or their families they feel differently. One "true libertarian" that I know (member of the Party - full time activist in it" is 1.5 million into my money (tax money) for problems after a car accident.

So much for personal responsibility. He could have ended his cost to society at many times along the way.
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Old 01-02-2019, 08:43 AM
 
18,744 posts, read 8,364,710 times
Reputation: 4118
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Well, to quote the "responsible right" the patients should have never accepted services they can't pay for.

"Let 'em die" was not a joke. It was truly the way they feel..."feel" being the operative word since when it comes to themselves or their families they feel differently. One "true libertarian" that I know (member of the Party - full time activist in it" is 1.5 million into my money (tax money) for problems after a car accident.

So much for personal responsibility. He could have ended his cost to society at many times along the way.
OK. But of any $750K medical bill, what is the settlement cost?
What would your insurer pay?
What should you pay?

I can tell you as a doc, and as a patient, and as a caregiver of one most medically complicated and expensive wife, that the medical bill is inflated for all sorts of reasons. And what insurance pays can be way lower.

In other words bargain the $750K down. I'm sure they would take 1/2 in an instant. 1/3 and over 20 years without interest would be a valid goal IMO.
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Old 01-02-2019, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,498,517 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
In NJ, collection is short. At about 6 months you get garnishment without any pre hearing. Happened to my boss wfe in my 2nd job. BTW they took the WHOLE paycheck for X time IIRC about 4 months.

Also happened to another friend. After they took EVERYTHING, they would drag him into court twice a year just to harass him until it ran out on statue of limitations. He actually had insurance, but his wife had some kind of mega stroke that eventually killed her, then he had some kind of gut issue that capped his insurance. I still remember him saying something like, "What the heck am I supposed to do with a 750K bill?"
The annual/ lifetime caps most states allowed insurers to impose on claims was eliminated with the ACA.

This and other sources seem to contradict second hand information or perhaps state laws have evolved since the incidences you mention.

There are Federal and state laws that limit how much of a wage can be garnished.

The court cannot order a wage garnishment without providing opportunity for the debtor to respond to a summons.

https://www.jenkinsclayman.com/wage-...-in-new-jersey

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...ment-laws.html

Think most folk would likely declare bankruptcy due to an inability to pay a $750,000 medical bill.
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Old 01-02-2019, 10:17 AM
 
4,559 posts, read 1,420,787 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightleavenyc View Post
For decades, hospitals hid their prices, allowing them to overcharge patients and give doctors and suppliers the kickbacks they needed to fund their extravagant lifestyles. That is now changing.

Trump, being a smart businessman, knows that price transparency creates competition and brings prices down. Prices may fall so much that libs might not even whine when silly Obamacare is phased out.

https://qz.com/1509095/hospital-to-p...-services/amp/
Hospitals etc inflate charges when Ins. is submitted.

I v been cash pay and told at the pay window.....if you pay cash today "it s" $20.00"..."if you use your insurance it s $40.00".
Every procedure from childbirth to lab tests to surgery.

When I v used insurance by the time I am billed "my share" by everyone that said "Hello" to me I v paid at least the $$ I would have paid cash out the door.

Billing the government or big box insurance companies requires your cost for services contribute to all the employee paychecks that touch your procedure.

That doesn't include the fraud.....like when I was accidentally sent the billing paperwork from the hospital that was meant for my Ins. Company and lo and behold apparently my newborn who never left my arms was in an incubator for three days. When I called the hospital about the matter all they said was..."how did you get that?"....Ha! It was addressed to me.
They just said "disregard because you are not charged for those things"..
I let my Ins. Company know....doesnt seem like anything has changed other than "codes" are now used instead of specific line items described.

I did bust a small time lab for charging me for cancer testing following a routine yearly exam . I had to call my doctor, " follow the codes", consult with a friend who used to work for a big box ins company for direction, and a lawyer for legal letter head....and I never heard from the lab again.
I heard their shakedown process went bust. They were on the news not to long ago.

There is no way cost for services will come down as long as the country is "other than " cash pay.

The country should go all cash pay and prices will drop.
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Old 01-02-2019, 11:56 AM
 
18,744 posts, read 8,364,710 times
Reputation: 4118
Quote:
Originally Posted by what'd i miss View Post
Hospitals etc inflate charges when Ins. is submitted.

I v been cash pay and told at the pay window.....if you pay cash today "it s" $20.00"..."if you use your insurance it s $40.00".
Every procedure from childbirth to lab tests to surgery.

When I v used insurance by the time I am billed "my share" by everyone that said "Hello" to me I v paid at least the $$ I would have paid cash out the door.

Billing the government or big box insurance companies requires your cost for services contribute to all the employee paychecks that touch your procedure.

That doesn't include the fraud.....like when I was accidentally sent the billing paperwork from the hospital that was meant for my Ins. Company and lo and behold apparently my newborn who never left my arms was in an incubator for three days. When I called the hospital about the matter all they said was..."how did you get that?"....Ha! It was addressed to me.
They just said "disregard because you are not charged for those things"..
I let my Ins. Company know....doesnt seem like anything has changed other than "codes" are now used instead of specific line items described.

I did bust a small time lab for charging me for cancer testing following a routine yearly exam . I had to call my doctor, " follow the codes", consult with a friend who used to work for a big box ins company for direction, and a lawyer for legal letter head....and I never heard from the lab again.
I heard their shakedown process went bust. They were on the news not to long ago.

There is no way cost for services will come down as long as the country is "other than " cash pay.

The country should go all cash pay and prices will drop.
Cash should be fine for simple and easy and predictable stuff.

But then you get to catastrophic, and that's where almost all will need help. And if not today, then when a senior.

You can't do cash for a severe head on car crash, and you can't do cash for stem cell transplants.
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Old 01-02-2019, 12:59 PM
 
34,248 posts, read 19,247,223 times
Reputation: 17237
Oh look, even Trump supporters are taking a effort to claim Obamas successes as Trumps.


Trump had ZERO to do with this, this was part of the ACA that Obama passed that went into effect this year. This attempt to give Trump Credit for it is nonsense.
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