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Why does he “take no pleasure” in the differences? Why does he “wish they didn’t exist?” That’s pretty stupid to me.
We are what we are. If my IQ is lower on average than a white man’s, so what? If the white man is a normal human being characterized by love and empathy for his fellow man, why should it matter? Answer: it shouldn’t.
But it DOES matter if the man with this superior intellect and high IQ has evil intentions and wants nothing more than to subjugate people that he sees as less intelligent, and therefore less deserving of the human dignity that he reserves for himself.
That wouldn’t be the REAL issue now....would it OP? Just asking.
We aren’t all the same individually, ethnically or racially. The overwhelming majority of people are fine with that notion. However OP...I’m really not interested in your “solutions” to make things better. Keep ‘em to yourself. I’ve got a better solution...you stay outta my way and I’ll stay outta yours.
We don’t have to like each other in this country. We just have to coexist...peaceably. You can be smarter than me and I’ll be dumber than you. That’s a deal I’ll make so long as you stay in your place and don’t get cute with any of your damn “solutions.”
Spoken like a true conservative who doesn't like government meddling in our private lives. Welcome aboard!
I’m not so sure that you can base too much on “the exceptions.” Being an exception implies something being in pretty short supply.
All that said, I don’t know where folks wanna go with this IQ argument, but I have a good idea. But as long as they don’t try to use it to disenfranchise me, disrespect me or try to change the present societal arrangements, they can argue about it all they want.
Problem is, most of those commenting on it don't know much except theories from dozens of years back - you know, BEFORE DNA was really studied to the extent it is now.
Most of these new "truths", such as Japan raising their IQ in one generation massively, are so new that many in threads like this have not read or processed them yet.
So they are throwing out "what they heard" here, there and everything and what they think (which is often formed by what they heard).....
I'm fairly quick at stuff but fell asleep in chemistry. Turns out I was better at being a generalist, which...like you, has made me as or more successful (and probably happier) than many professionals I know. It's always funny when my doctor can't imagine how I retired in my 50's (actually at 45 from day to day work).
But the OP is about an old dude who, as others have noted, lost his filters and was also know as somewhat of an a-hole (cocky) even when he won his Prize. It's sad when smart people go downhill....better to just take up fishing or another good hobby and enjoy life than to run around giving talks influenced by Hate Radio or the book he read 30 years back.
Islam was never an empire, in fact the middle east was a bastion of learning prior to the introduction of Islam. The religion of Islam actually frowns upon education. Do a little research and you will find I am right, Islam ruined the middle east and stifled there growth.
Guns, Germs and Steel......and the "honor' of taking over much of the known world....is, of course, where most Euro wealth came from. It has little to do with IQ and more to do with access to water routes and a bit of the luck of the draw as to who put together the first guns.
The Chinese and Indians and others may have been intelligent, but intelligence is no match for cannon.
You may be right to some degree, but it took some manner of intelligence to build the ships and navigate the oceans, when did any of that come out of Africa?
IQ tests were initially developed as a measuring tool for academic success. The idea that is functional as a measurement of "intelligence" is highly problematic for a number of reasons.
1.) For one there isn't a comprehensive, agreed upon definition of what exactly is "intelligence". Much like the word "art" its understanding can vary quite dramatically from person to person. So right off the bat we are attempting to measure something we haven't comprehensively defined.
2.) Then we have the limited scope unto which the test is performed. On a desk with a pen and paper. The tests involve no physical motion, athletic movements, or spatial awareness. An individual who understands concepts better through hearing and touch are at an automatic disadvantage. Thus the communication input required is very narrow.
3.) So we are taking a test limited test in order to measure something we don't fully comprehend and that's when we run into the next issue. Communication. This is especially problematic on the global scale when IQ tests are taken in a wide variety of languages. Are IQ tests created in one language then translated into others? Are IQ tests in each and every language constructed for that specific language from the ground up? Either way we run into some major problems. If the communication within the test is not clear or is open to various forms of understanding then we will have inaccuracies in the results that are not indicative of the IQ of the test taker. Does the IQ test lend itself to be better understood in specific languages?
4.) We then have to know if the circumstances when the tests were given were consistent from place to place. Did one location have a lot of noise and distractions? was it too cold in the room? Was it before a major holiday and people taking the tests were distracted by upcoming events? These circumstances may slightly effect the results of each test taker which as a whole may distort the data.
5.) Does the test taker really care about getting a good score? An individual who does not care about the test or results will not make much of an effort, the results will show this. Thus their true IQ is not represented accurately in the data. Are the nations with the highest scores more intelligent or do they have a national culture where taking tests is considered something very serious?
As we go one and on we find more and more variables that cannot be accounted for, are not measured or are not considered. All of which may radically change the outcome of the test for both the individual and the group being tested.
Thus we shouldn't take IQ tests very seriously as a measurement of intelligence.
You may be right to some degree, but it took some manner of intelligence to build the ships and navigate the oceans, when did any of that come out of Africa?
Sorry but Europeans were very late to this game. The ancient Phoenicians had the most sophisticated nautical engineering of their time, They were the first people to develop and use celestial navigation which enabled them to sail on open waters far away from the coastline. From the shores of Lebanon they sailed out of the Mediterranean out into the Atlantic ocean to places as far away as the coast of West Africa the British Isles. They did this thousands of years before the Vikings ever left Scandinavia. Oh and some of the earliest explorers (circa the 6th century BC) such as Himilco, and Hanno were Phoenicians from North Africa. That should answer your question.
Then we get to the ancient Polynesians who were able to track and settle remote islands in the gigantic pacific ocean. Their nautical abilities and knowledge were leaps greater then anything that was happening in Europe at the time.
Sorry but Europeans were very late to this game. The ancient Phoenicians had the most sophisticated nautical engineering of their time, They were the first people to develop and use celestial navigation which enabled them to sail on open waters far away from the coastline. From the shores of Lebanon they sailed out of the Mediterranean out into the Atlantic ocean to places as far away as the coast of West Africa the British Isles. They did this thousands of years before the Vikings ever left Scandinavia. Oh and some of the earliest explorers (circa the 6th century BC) such as Himilco, and Hanno were Phoenicians from North Africa. That should answer your question.
Then we get to the ancient Polynesians who were able to track and settle remote islands in the gigantic pacific ocean. Their nautical abilities and knowledge were leaps greater then anything that was happening in Europe at the time.
Most of the info about the Phoenicians was gathered from the Hebrew bible and it was not very clear, so as a result there isn't much information to make the claims you are making. Hell, we don't even know how true this information is. Another thing, the Phoenicians did not sail nearly as far and wide as the europeans did, nor did they colonize anywhere. The Phooenicians actually explored very sall areas for a very short time in history.
I’m not so sure that you can base too much on “the exceptions.” Being an exception implies something being in pretty short supply.
That said, I’m not gonna bother with this whole IQ thing too much. It is what it is. I’m black and I have no issue with having on average lower intelligence than whites or Asians. So what? People just like me have lived with this fact long before I ever had to. If whites can live with the fact that Asians are smarter on average than they are, I can live with the fact that whites are smarter than I am on average. I’m not gonna constantly bother myself with it nor am I gonna kill myself over it. I acknowledge it, then I move on.
I can still live a good life, make a valuable contribution to society, and be competitive with anyone as far as I’m concerned. I’m not a rat race guy, but I went to college with several whites and Asians that were much smarter than me, and I’m doing about as well as most of them with few exceptions. I’m not a high achiever nor am I at the bottom of the totem pole. I’m quite happy with my life station as it is and wouldn’t have it any other way. If my IQ were much higher, I’d be the exact same person with the exact same station in life...I’d just have a little more knowledge and maybe a few more bucks at the most.
All that said, I don’t know where folks wanna go with this IQ argument, but I have a good idea. But as long as they don’t try to use it to disenfranchise me, disrespect me or try to change the present societal arrangements, they can argue about it all they want.
Not sure I buy that you are actually black. But if so, you are the single weakest, most clueless, easy mark poster on this forum.
That you "concede" to a pseudoscientific hypothesis that you clearly dont even understand, in a debate that seems to be totally above your head is moronic.
Lazy inner-city people? No, Charles Murray didn't write that. When you quote something from a book which is not actually in that book you are... lying. Quit lying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon
He has now lied 3 times and made 2 assumptions to make the point he is making. Perhaps his point is hollow and completely in his head since he leaves the land of the real.
Charles Murray said this first in “Deeper Into the Brain."
Quote:
"Try to imagine a … presidential candidate saying in front of the cameras, ‘One reason that we still have poverty in the United States is that a lot of poor people are born lazy.’ You cannot imagine it because that kind of thing cannot be said. And yet this unimaginable statement merely implies that when we know the complete genetic story, it will turn out that the population below the poverty line in the United States has a configuration of the relevant genetic makeup that is significantly different from the configuration of the population above the poverty line. This is not unimaginable. It is almost certainly true."
Ryan basically repackages the above argument in a neat, more politically correct package. He has a more eloquent way of saying "lazy," of course. This was the same interview where he cites Charles Murray.
Quote:
"We have got this tailspin of culture, in our inner cities in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work, and so there is a real culture problem here that has to be dealt with."
Of course, in the Bell Curve, Murray concludes that the US government ought to abandon the welfare the state. Which, of course, sounds familiar is you listen to Ryan's constant desire to get rid of welfare benefits. This is in the "Bell Curve."
Quote:
"The technically precise description of America’s fertility policy is that it subsidizes births among poor women, who are also disproportionately at the low end of the intelligence distribution. We urge generally that these policies, represented by the extensive network of cash and services for low-income women who have babies, be ended."
As much as you guys don't want to admit it, Charles Murray is a prominent intellectual in the conservative movement. Look up the praise Jeb Bush has for him.
Most of the info about the Phoenicians was gathered from the Hebrew bible and it was not very clear, so as a result there isn't much information to make the claims you are making. Hell, we don't even know how true this information is. Another thing, the Phoenicians did not sail nearly as far and wide as the europeans did, nor did they colonize anywhere. The Phooenicians actually explored very sall areas for a very short time in history.
Untrue. We have significant sources of information about the Phoenicians from sources besides the Hebrew Bible. Greek and Egyptian historians reference Phoenicians. If you are using the Hebrew Bible as your primary source of information then your minimal knowledge is understandable.
Moreover, we have evidence of extensive seafaring between India and Africa. As regards colonizing, you might consider Australia the first and best example of ancient colonizing. Europe simply followed in the steps of ancient mariners.
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