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It’s funny how around here, we get all this talk about IQ and who does or doesn’t deserve admission into this or that elite university. Turns out that the most successful people (if success is largely determined by money) were fairly pedestrian students. Not dumb, but not academic superstars by a long shot on average.
This 2017 article that first appeared on Business Insider, and it’s not long at all. It lists a few of the reasons why average students are more likely to end up at the top as opposed to the high academic achievers.
It’s funny how around here, we get all this talk about IQ and who does or doesn’t deserve admission into this or that elite university. Turns out that the most successful people (if success is largely determined by money) were fairly pedestrian students. Not dumb, but not academic superstars by a long shot on average.
This 2017 article that first appeared on Business Insider, and it’s not long at all. It lists a few of the reasons why average students are more likely to end up at the top as opposed to the high academic achievers.
The linkage between earning and IQ (or test scores) is fairly strong. The schools that have the highest starting salaries also tend to have the highest average SAT scores.
Your first instinct might be that the colleges where graduates go on to make the most money are probably the most elite, selective colleges like MIT, Stanford, and schools in the Ivy League which can be hopelessly out of reach for most people.
That instinct is mostly correct. As you can see from the following graph (with outliers removed), there is a clear positive association between SAT scores of incoming students and earnings of outgoing students at a college. Discouragingly, most colleges seem to be densely packed together in the low-SAT, low-earnings area in the lower left of the graph, while only a select few reside in the high-SAT, high-earnings area in the top right of the graph.
The Boston Globe has a series about valedictorians from Boston public schools. They fared pretty poorly for valedictorians. The schools were weak and they didn't score well in tests. Many dropped out of college, switched majors and while many aspired to be doctors none had a medical degree.
It’s funny how around here, we get all this talk about IQ and who does or doesn’t deserve admission into this or that elite university. Turns out that the most successful people (if success is largely determined by money) were fairly pedestrian students. Not dumb, but not academic superstars by a long shot on average.
This 2017 article that first appeared on Business Insider, and it’s not long at all. It lists a few of the reasons why average students are more likely to end up at the top as opposed to the high academic achievers.
Great article and it speaks a lot on what I state as well in many of the (racist) IQ threads around here. Especially in people thinking that a GPA or ACT/SAT scores is the end all/be all for life.
IMO internal drive, motivation, and determination are the most important aspects of success. In my personal life, I've found that these people are usually the best to work with in my field as well, which is not an easy, process driven career in the section I work in. So when I hire people, I create a test based upon specific work situations and ask them to figure out what to do. Often those who are the top 4.0, high ACT/SAT scoring "kids" as I call them, are the worse candidates because they need a lot of hand holding and instructions and life doesn't come with instructions.
People often feel bad for me in a way because my oldest is about a 2.8 GPA student. I was a great student in high school, mostly because I just find all sorts of subjects interesting so I engaged in school. My son does not. He likes what he likes. He'll do what he needs to do to get a C or better (lol he admits this) and I've stopped badgering him about grades.
People who meet him though do think that he's one of those kids that will "go far" and go places because he is engaging and creative and very dedicated to the things he does well. He wants to be an entrepreneur and has had a couple of businesses. I do expect him to end up being a millionaire as long as he doesn't get sidetracked by something devastating like drug addiction or some crazy relationship.
He has a great head on his shoulders, so I don't worry about him.
While money has a lot to do with admissions it's also "who you know", the good ole boy's network.
A fairly average student with the right family name will leap over less fortunate yet better students. The only caveat is through skin color and sports scholarships. Ivy League schools do not focus on sports as much as they once did. Identity is all the rage these days.
This is why Harvard is being sued by Asian students.
From Harvard: If it were to eliminate the consideration of race, Harvard estimates that would cut the number of African-American, Hispanic and other underrepresented minorities by nearly half.
38% are going into social science and humanities, fields that are the least likely to translate into an Ivy League income.
Most African Americans who go to Harvard go on to get graduate degrees. I know a few black Harvard grads. One has a Masters and two have PhDs.
They all make Ivy League income.
I agree it is on the "who you know" and the network versus a lot of other factors.
However, I'll note that the underrepresented minority students at Harvard and other Ivy Leagues today are mostly based upon income and being the "first generation" of college attendees in their families and that inlcudes a very diverse amount of people in those universities. Harvard and other Ivy leagues also have a lot of black immigrant populations who actually do get high GPAs and/or test scores as do black American students from black bourgeoisie backgrounds and black students who are poor but just hungry to go to Harvard. IMO people place too many stereotypes on black Harvard attendees along with too much emphasis on that institution anyway. Anyone who applies to Harvard and is considered is better on paper than those who apply to higher quality public institutions or average public institutions because the criteria for Harvard in general is higher.
But IMO it would be better for black American students to go to an HBCU especially esteemed ones like Howard or Spelman as they'd get a great network and not have to deal with a lot of racial mess as I call it in their studies.
I'll note I attended an HBCU and have a liberal arts degree along with a masters degree and I make well above median income. Lots of students, no matter their ethnicity, who have undergrads in humanities/social science/liberal arts today go on to get a graduate degree. Most black people I know with a graduate degree have an MBA or MPA and work in corporate America or the federal government (or government contractors).
The bottom line is that Cuomo's (HUD) mandate that Fannie and Freddie buy $2.4 trillion worth of mortgages made to people who would not otherwise qualify set off the entire credit collapse when they began defaulting at a higher than acceptable percentage. The Federal Reserve had to create a non-offsetted (e.g., by US Treasuries) extra $2 trillion worth of USD to buy the high-risk mortgages, thereby diluting the USD, and the Federal Reserve is just letting those MBS roll off the Federal Reserves H.4.1 as they mature, paid off or not.
Meanwhile, as I've already posted, and documented by the NY Times, tens of thousands of people who've defaulted on their mortgages for 5+ years are getting their homes for free.
I'm not so much a bottom line person... because of the variables which are underlying.... there is more to "why" "Fannie and Freddie" bought those loans... and if one looks at the nature of other factors that were at play, in trying to stimulate the economy, one will find, the long term "0" interest rates to banking institution that move to become "Negative Interest Rates".... ( I referenced the element of a non performing economy, but also we had a escalating war cost, that raged on two foreign countries soil, we had the ever mounting Trade Imbalances, because Outsourcing shipped everything of capacity industrial production from American Soil) {{ One can look at today, what are the highest grossing business in American? Answer: Advertising (Google and Facebook) and "Marketing Imports (Amazon and Ebay) and "Financial Paper Shuffle Gaming" }} .... These thing make anything else in American look like a "Miniature Operation".
This is to day... there were many factors at play in the big picture of things.
It’s funny how around here, we get all this talk about IQ and who does or doesn’t deserve admission into this or that elite university. Turns out that the most successful people (if success is largely determined by money) were fairly pedestrian students. Not dumb, but not academic superstars by a long shot on average.
This 2017 article that first appeared on Business Insider, and it’s not long at all. It lists a few of the reasons why average students are more likely to end up at the top as opposed to the high academic achievers.
I'm not so much a bottom line person... because of the variables which are underlying.... there is more to "why" "Fannie and Freddie" bought those loans... and if one looks at the nature of other factors that were at play, in trying to stimulate the economy, one will find, the long term "0" interest rates to banking institution that move to become "Negative Interest Rates".... ( I referenced the element of a non performing economy, but also we had a escalating war cost, that raged on two foreign countries soil, we had the ever mounting Trade Imbalances, because Outsourcing shipped everything of capacity industrial production from American Soil) {{ One can look at today, what are the highest grossing business in American? Answer: Advertising (Google and Facebook) and "Marketing Imports (Amazon and Ebay) and "Financial Paper Shuffle Gaming" }} .... These thing make anything else in American look like a "Miniature Operation".
This is to day... there were many factors at play in the big picture of things.
You can imagine anything you wish. But without Cuomo at HUD mandating that Fannie and Freddie buy those $2.4 trillion worth of high risk loans, Fannie and Freddie would not have bought them as they did not meet prior minimum lending standards, and the Federal Reserve wouldn't have to subsequently create $2 trillion out of thin air to buy the distressed Fannie and Freddie MBS into which those high risk loans were bundled.
$1.64 trillion worth of those Fannie and Freddie MBS are still on the Federal Reserve's H.4.1.
IMO,
The other side of the coin is A LOT more dangerous.
In contrast to a few hundred millionaires who were “pedestrian students”, there are MILLIONS of unskilled and/or blue collar labor, people who work at minimum wage, or suck on social welfare programs and struggling to make the ends meet BECAUSE their GPA was in that 2.9 range.
The chances of dropping out from school or not focusing on academic excellence, and becoming a millionaire are VERY, VERY, VERY, slim.
And the rate of failure is VERY, VERY, VERY high when one is a “pedestrian student”.
And the chances of having a successful life with a reasonably good income are a lot better, when you take the conventional way, which is, work hard, do good in school and become a well qualified professional in your field of academics interest.
I agree. This thread seems to be a rationalization for not doing as well as one possibly can in school.
Some billionaires are college dropouts, as well, but there is only one Steve Jobs and one Bill Gates. Because some geniuses can do it does not mean all college dropouts will have the same result.
It’s funny how around here, we get all this talk about IQ and who does or doesn’t deserve admission into this or that elite university. Turns out that the most successful people (if success is largely determined by money) were fairly pedestrian students. Not dumb, but not academic superstars by a long shot on average.
This 2017 article that first appeared on Business Insider, and it’s not long at all. It lists a few of the reasons why average students are more likely to end up at the top as opposed to the high academic achievers.
It is a book, and the three reviews = 3 stars. The methodology of the study is questionable. Real studies use all kind of controls and sampling. And due to the poor methodology, I don't think this really reflects anything valid. This 'study' was more like an observation.
Interesting critical comment:
"... should be embarrassed to call this a "comprehensive study"! Really....study 81 people out of over 75,000 Valedictorians and Salutatorians selected in the US, or over 1 million that earned the award in the 14 years ..... and determine none of them will be great or are great. After 40 years I still remember our class Valedictorian, she became a PHD in Chemistry, a mother of 5 beautiful children but because she is not a Billionaire she must not have made a positive impact on the world..."
You can imagine anything you wish. But without Cuomo at HUD mandating that Fannie and Freddie buy those $2.4 trillion worth of high risk loans, Fannie and Freddie would not have bought them as they did not meet prior minimum lending standards, and the Federal Reserve wouldn't have to subsequently create $2 trillion out of thin air to buy the distressed Fannie and Freddie MBS into which those high risk loans were bundled.
$1.64 trillion worth of those Fannie and Freddie MBS are still on the Federal Reserve's H.4.1.
You choose to ignore the influential variables, and that's OK... your point is taken, but its not as simple as you say. That's all I'm saying.
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But without Cuomo at HUD mandating that Fannie and Freddie buy those $2.4 trillion worth of high risk loans, Fannie and Freddie would not have bought them as they did not meet prior minimum lending standards, and the Federal Reserve wouldn't have to subsequently create $2 trillion out of thin air to buy the distressed Fannie and Freddie MBS into which those high risk loans were bundled. 
