Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Suspended is a bit much. Maybe send them to the bathroom to turn the shirt inside out or go home to change, but not a formal suspension.
Confederate flag, BLM, KKK, etc...I would not allow any fringe political group symbols in my school, whether they be extreme conservatives or extreme progressives.
There is a difference between what a person wants to say, and what the people listening think he is saying. A symbol is an abstract representation. A symbol can represent anything. Your insistence that that is not true is irrational.
What a person says they are trying to say means something. That's the very foundation of freedom of speech.
My point is this. What someone thinks a symbol represents and what it actually represents are two different things. I take the Confederate flag based on what it ACTUALLY represents, not what someone claims it represents.
There is a difference between what a person wants to say, and what the people listening think he is saying. A symbol is an abstract representation. A symbol can represent anything. Your insistence that that is not true is irrational.
What a person says they are trying to say means something. That's the very foundation of freedom of speech.
I get the whole "eye of the wearer" argument, but what of the swastika? It didn't start out as a Nazi thing, but would you really want to see one displayed as a symbol of rebellion or of German pride?
Freedom of speech is real, but so is freedom of interpretation.
10TH grade, 2001. The Confederate flag was banned from my high school. That news was music to my ears. I was happy to hear it. I thought "good, I don't have to see anymore of those stupid Dixie Outfitter shirts in this school. I personally hate the Confederate flag". To say the least I was happy. However, this didn't stop alot of kids from coming to school with Confederate flag t-shirts. If anything, kids who never wore those shirts before suddenly wore them to school. A witnessed one kid get "In School Suspension" for wearing a Confederate flag t-shirt to school. I thought to myself "Good, that's what you get. Maybe you won't wear that piece of trash to school ever again".
I will also add that in my high school, there were some racial tensions. From what one kid told me, there were some racially motivated fights related to the Confederate flag.
In the end, the Principal quit enforcing that particular rule. The Principal figured he could not suspended 1/3 of the school over dress code issues. That and even some teachers didn't really care. A few teachers did care. I watched one girl get reprimanded for wearing a Dixie Outfitter t-shirt, by one of my teachers, in class.
Suspending that kid was a bit much. At the same time, I don't feel any pity for him. I view the Confederate flag based on the cause that it stands for, and it's nothing good at all.
My point is this. What someone thinks a symbol represents and what it actually represents are two different things. I take the Confederate flag based on what it ACTUALLY represents, not what someone claims it represents.
My point is that there is no "actually represents" when we are talking about symbols. It's an abstract. A symbol can mean anything. You are conflating "actually represents" with "generally represents", and you are arguing that the audience and not the speaker gets to determine the speaker's meaning. This student didn't intend for you or the general population of the United States to be the audience. This student intended the student body of a high school to be his audience. He intended the audience to be people who knew him and would put that symbol into the context of how they knew him. And how he wanted the symbol he was using to be taken might well be interpreted differently by that student body than by you.
To me the Confederate flag represents the Confederacy, and all the complicated factors that led to a devastating Civil War. I would never fly the flag because I recognize that slavery was one of the factors that led to that war, I would never fly the flag because I think that everything that led to that war was about humanity at its worst, I would never fly the flag because that war was so devastating to our nation. But that's how I interpret that symbol. And because I ardently believe in free speech, I am willing to listen to how others interpret that symbol, what they are trying to say when they fly that symbol. And while more often than not, I will disagree with what they are trying to say, I will defend their right to say it because freedom of speech is not just a principle, it needs to be used, vigorously, and to be defended, vigorously.
I get the whole "eye of the wearer" argument, but what of the swastika? It didn't start out as a Nazi thing, but would you really want to see one displayed as a symbol of rebellion or of German pride?
Freedom of speech is real, but so is freedom of interpretation.
What I want is irrelevant. Freedom of speech is about you defining yourself and what you mean. That is more important in my opinion that freedom of interpretation which is about others labeling you and trying to tell you what you meant.
In the case of people using symbols that are interpreted as offensive by the general audience, that is the point of using such symbols. They get attention, which is what the people using them want. Then the person using them can explain what their message is. And the audience can explain why they think the symbol may not be the right symbol for the message, which is what you and other posters on this thread are doing, and the person using that symbol can take your advice or not. It should be a discourse.
This is not to say that think the school was wrong for banning the symbol. The school's focus is on educating, and anything that detracts from the educational process, any disruptions, trigger the school's authority to handle those disruptions.
What I want is irrelevant. Freedom of speech is about you defining yourself and what you mean. That is more important in my opinion that freedom of interpretation which is about others labeling you and trying to tell you what you meant.
In the case of people using symbols that are interpreted as offensive by the general audience, that is the point of using such symbols. They get attention, which is what the people using them want. Then the person using them can explain what their message is. And the audience can explain why they think the symbol may not be the right symbol for the message, which is what you and other posters on this thread are doing, and the person using that symbol can take your advice or not. It should be a discourse.
This is not to say that think the school was wrong for banning the symbol. The school's focus is on educating, and anything that detracts from the educational process, any disruptions, trigger the school's authority to handle those disruptions.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from facts. You're entitled to your freedom of speech. So am I. Anyone in this country has a right to say "it's my southern heritage" or "It stands for rebellion against the government". However, it is not freedom from the truth. And in this case, the truth matters much more than opinions do. You're entitled to an opinion. However, other people are entitled to show you and prove to you where you are wrong. Just because you have the freedom to say something doesn't mean what you said is truthful or morally right. You're entitled to state an opinion. However, opinions are different from facts. And in this particular issue, FACTS, not opinions, are what count. Someone's interpretation of the Confederate flag does not negate what the Confederate cause was about.
This is where I'm coming from. The facts show what the Confederate cause is about. And Confederate symbols represent the Confederacy. Why brandish such symbols? What is the point is brandishing what we know is offensive? What message are persons who fly Confederate flags trying to send? I really can't see the message said persons are trying to send, other than to be nasty for the sake of it.
My point is that there is no "actually represents" when we are talking about symbols. It's an abstract. A symbol can mean anything. You are conflating "actually represents" with "generally represents", and you are arguing that the audience and not the speaker gets to determine the speaker's meaning. This student didn't intend for you or the general population of the United States to be the audience. This student intended the student body of a high school to be his audience. He intended the audience to be people who knew him and would put that symbol into the context of how they knew him. And how he wanted the symbol he was using to be taken might well be interpreted differently by that student body than by you.
To me the Confederate flag represents the Confederacy, and all the complicated factors that led to a devastating Civil War. I would never fly the flag because I recognize that slavery was one of the factors that led to that war, I would never fly the flag because I think that everything that led to that war was about humanity at its worst, I would never fly the flag because that war was so devastating to our nation. But that's how I interpret that symbol. And because I ardently believe in free speech, I am willing to listen to how others interpret that symbol, what they are trying to say when they fly that symbol. And while more often than not, I will disagree with what they are trying to say, I will defend their right to say it because freedom of speech is not just a principle, it needs to be used, vigorously, and to be defended, vigorously.
You will never stop the display of the confederate flag. The more you leftists attempt to ban it the more we will defy your wishes. This experience should have taught you this. After it was removed in the state house of SC there were HUGE flag rallies around the South in defiance of that act. More than half the country (the part that voted for Trump) HATES political correctness and SJWs. We will not yield to PC period . You cannot tell half the population what to say do or think and expect obedience to those directives.
You will never stop the display of the confederate flag. The more you leftists attempt to ban it the more we will defy your wishes. This experience should have taught you this. After it was removed in the state house of SC there were HUGE flag rallies around the South in defiance of that act. More than half the country (the part that voted for Trump) HATES political correctness and SJWs. We will not yield to PC period . You cannot tell half the population what to say do or think and expect obedience to those directives.
And people like me despise the Confederacy and what it stands for. I don't care how much you don't like "political correctness" and "sjws". I care about the facts. And the facts show that the Confederacy was dedicated and heavily rooted in keeping slavery and the enslavement of Blacks in the South (and even expanding it to the west). The Confederate flag represents the Confederate cause, period, no matter how much you like the Confederate flag. The Confederate flag was flown as a way of saying "slavery might be over, but Blacks will never be treated as equals". This is why so many Confederate monuments went up. And then it became a protest against integration. The Confederate dream has explicitly been a bigoted dream. This is why someone like me hates the Confederate flag, Confederate symbols, and what they stand for.
Stand for southern heritage? Whose southern heritage? A majority of Blacks are southerners and the vast majority of Blacks in America have southern roots. The vast majority of Blacks regardless of where they live are not claiming the Confederate flag as their own. Most don't identify with it or even like it. Ask yourself why that it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
