Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The key is something you don't seem to know...Carbon and carbon dioxide are not the same...Carbon is an element and CO2 is a compound.....As a scientist you should have known that... It is excess CO2 messing up the climate, not carbon.
I guess you don't understand the "science" as much as you thought you did! This is why it is difficult to communicate with you guys, as you do not understand really basic, elementary school level science. How in the world do you expect to understand anything more complicated, such as thermodynamics and the interaction of IR energy with compounds when the basic concepts of science (essential to understand the whole issue of AGW) seems to elude you?????
CO2 is absorbed from the atmosphere by plants. That CO2 is used to make sugars, which are used to make more complex and simple sugars (polysaccharides and monsacharides). Those sugars are used to make plant fibers, which are the structural basis of plants (all form mean old CO2).
We, as humans, consume these plant fibers and sugars. We use sugars in the Krebs cycle to generate ATP, which is the cellular energy by which we exist. Some of the CARBON BASED sugars are used by the body to create proteins and lipids, which are componants of all tissues in humans. Of course, we need other elements, principally Nitrogen, and other trace elements to make all the compounds that make up a human, but you are essentially mostly water, followed by carbon and nitrogen.
So............. yes- CO2 is essential to life, as that CO2 is what eventually makes up about 25% of what is YOU. Without CO2 and the ability of plants to create more complex carbon based sugars, life would cease to exist.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........................... and where does CO2 come from? What happens when you burn carbon based compounds? One of the molecules created is CO2. Additionally, in cellular respiration and through the Krebs cycle, animals kick out CO2, which we expire into the atmosphere.
EVERYTHING IN OUR BODIES IS MADE UP OF COMPOUNDS WHICH CONTAIN CARBON. Ever wonder why Organic Chemistry is basically the chemistry of carbon based compounds?????
Where do you suppose the carbon in the atmosphere goes when absorbed by plants? And what do humans and animal eat? That’s right- plants!
Now are plants made of carbon or silicon? No- rocks and sand are made of silicon. Plants are made of carbon based compounds.
We, as humans, are organic, carbon based beings. Everything in our bodies are made up of carbon based compounds. I guess if you don’t know that, your scope of science is below that of most elementary school kids,so it will be a bit difficult to continue until you understand that.
What did you think organic compounds were made of? Sugar and spice and everything nice? Those are also made of carbon.
A better question would be where the excess man made CO2 go, does it just disappear. Do you believe that excessive CO2 is a benefit to the planet or does it heat our atmosphere.
A better question would be where the excess man made CO2 go, does it just disappear. Do you believe that excessive CO2 is a benefit to the planet or does it heat our atmosphere.
Where does the CO2 go? It is in a "steady state" equilibrium between that in the atmosphere and CO2 dissolved in the oceans. The capacity of both the ocean and the atmosphere is FAR FROM SATURATION.
In addition, plants consume a great deal of atmospheric CO2. It had been suggested that the amount of CO2 that plants were able to absorb were limited by available N2. However, it has been recently found that available N2 in the earth is far, far greater than previously anticipated.
Does CO2 cause warming? Very, very little. The impact of CO2 on atmospheric warming is anywhere from 1/3,000 to 1/60,000th that of WATER VAPOR. As man-made CO2 is only 4% of atmospheric CO2, the contribution of man-made CO2 to atmospheric warming is:
1/1,500,000 th that of water vapor. So the impact of CO2 on "warming" is so infinitesimally small that it is close to zero.
CO2 levels, in fact, need to be higher than they are now for the health of the planet. Plants rely upon CO2 to propagate and every living creature on the planet requires plants to live, as they supply the sugars from which we derive energy and the compounds from which our bodies create all the tissues that make up US! Recent increases in CO2 have resulted in an increased "greening" of the planet, which is beneficial to world food supply and helping to cool the planet.
CO2 is far from a "pollutant"- IT IS ESSENTIAL TO LIFE, AS IT PROVIDES THE CARBON WHICH MAKES UP EVERY ORGANIC LIFEFORM ON THIS PLANET. It is shocking that CO2 has been vilified; however, as we have seen in the post of the last few pages, most of those who are supporters of AGW understand very little about science, specifically the chemistry and physics of carbon based compounds, and are thus "useful idiots" to propagate this farce.
The JCP is a bit more prestigious as a scientific journal than Wikibooks, but I think you know you're wrong anyway.
If I could find an online basic biology text I would have used it.
Who care if it's more prestigious...show me where anything in that link is not accurate.
Again move the goal posts. You posted a straw man that had nothing to do with proving me wrong. You're just a layman that does not understand the difference between a molecule and the basic block elements.
Where do you suppose the carbon in the atmosphere goes when absorbed by plants? And what do humans and animal eat? That’s right- plants!
Now are plants made of carbon or silicon? No- rocks and sand are made of silicon. Plants are made of carbon based compounds.
We, as humans, are organic, carbon based beings. Everything in our bodies are made up of carbon based compounds. I guess if you don’t know that, your scope of science is below that of most elementary school kids,so it will be a bit difficult to continue until you understand that.
What did you think organic compounds were made of? Sugar and spice and everything nice? Those are also made of carbon.
You need to take college biology and realize how utterly ignorant you come off.
Stop moving the goal posts. You know you stated an utterly ignorant comment and now are simply trying to move the goal posts in and effort to back-peddle away from that ignorant comment.
If anyone is wondering why the climatology community has been a bit quiet lately.
They fiddled the climate models only 4 years ago because they were running warmer than readings. Now that global temperature measurements are diverging from models again with this downtrend, they're probably pondering what to do.
Total rubbish as usual. No one has fiddled with climate models as you are claiming. Show us your credible evidence vs. your usual nonsense that you consistently post.
It's not a smart move to get your information and graph interpretations from WUWT written by the notorious liar Tim Ball.
The key is something you don't seem to know...Carbon and carbon dioxide are not the same...Carbon is an element and CO2 is a compound.....As a scientist you should have known that... It is excess CO2 messing up the climate, not carbon.
He's no scientist...he just beats his chest thinking that's going to convince us. LOL!
He's no scientist...he just beats his chest thinking that's going to convince us. LOL!
Hold on. You two are arguing semantics, on a minor side issue. Let me get you both back on track, so that you can continue your debate on the crux of the matter:
Here is what hawk is right about:
CO2 from the atmosphere is used by plants in photosynthesis. It is essential to life that CO2 is in the atmosphere.
Hawk is also correct that "extra" CO2 is in equilibrium with the oceans (and the other CO2 sinks in nature). The oceans help absorb some of the extra CO2 getting poured into the atmosphere by natural sources and by human industrial activity.
Here is where you two divulge. The extra CO2 being poured into the atmosphere every day is not being completely absorbed by all the CO2 sinks in nature, so atmospheric levels are rising. Hawk acknowledges that, but says it is a good thing, because it is not acting as a greenhouse gas that is warming the planet.
So why don't you two debate that specific point? I'm sure hawk will be as stubborn as ever, but if you can expose where his science fails, it will be while debating that point.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
This is why it is difficult to communicate with you guys, as you do not understand really basic, elementary school level science. How in the world do you expect to understand anything more complicated, such as thermodynamics and the interaction of IR energy with compounds when the basic concepts of science (essential to understand the whole issue of AGW) seems to elude you?????
