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Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Build the wall anyway.
You hate the idea of possibly paying for UHC but you have no problem government spending money on a useless wall.
Lets illustrate your fiscal argument here:
Cost of wall: $25 Billion (one-time fee, cuts illegal immigration by 30% and saves taxpayers more money than the cost to build in the long-term)
Cost of UHC: $3 Trillion (annually, and Democrats want to extend it to anybody who can make it over the border, thus increasing the costs even more in the long-term)
A wall won't prevent what existing border security is catching. Let's spend the money on enhancing elements of border security that are actually getting things done
I sincerely don't get your logic. Because some illegal drugs come through the checkpoints...no illegal drugs come through the border at places without checkpoints?
You seriously think this?
San Diego wanted a better wall...because specifically drugs were getting over their old wall that was as short as 8 feet in some locations.
Warren Buffett's son owns a ranch within sight of Mexico and drug runners freely cross the border traversing his property - no wall - carrying drugs according to him.
If you don't want a wall - you have to do better than pretending that a wall couldn't impede drug trafficking or that all drugs come through the checkpoint.
Over time, Trump has said the wall will cost $4-22 billion and dverything in between.
An intention is not a plan.
Despite his campaign promises and 2 years in office, his hand- picked Admin has not released a plan.
How many feet and where?
How tall?
How much below grade?
Composition?
How many partials of private land will need to be seized by Eminate Domain? What will this cost including litigation and appeals? How long will this take?
When will the wall be done?
One time cost?
Annual cost to maintain?
Projected useful life?
A private consortium of investors don’t invest $ billions without a well vetted plan. Yet, it seems Trump expects Congress to do so.
Where is the plan?
The "plan" costs money to conduct via surveying and hiring companies to submit proposals. The "plan" is a part of the cost, which will be substantial in of itself. Thus, one needs funding before detailed plans can even be considered.
There is no money currently for the wall, thus there is no money for a formal "plan", which come from bids after the government receives the funding and seeks out contractors to submit their detailed plans.
It was a massive shipment, relative to it’s potency.
The US heroin market is geographically segmented. Health risks, certainly not limited to OD, reflect the user’s physical location. Very generally speaking, Colombian- sourced powder dominates the market east of the Mississippi while to the west, Mexican sourced black tar is the most available. Powder vs tar debates are common amongst users.
The greatest number of ODs are occurring east of the Mississippi where powder is the most commonly available form of heroin and being cut with more powerful and cheaper substances.
The typical heroin addict is a white male in his early 20’s with a history of poly substance abuse, especially recreational use of prescription grade opioids. I recall a patient who shared he got his start in opioids by fishing his father’s used Fentanyl patches out of the garbage and eating them.
I can’t wrap my head around this.
While a Morphine Maintenance Program or Suboxone can be used for long term medical treatment, it does not provide the buzz so many continue to seek. Alcohol, marijuana and other drugs may fill the gap. Most roads eventually lead to the drug of choice, opioid/ opiates.
I think we have to turn to philosophy and education and human nature - and away from the science of dosing and fixing....to get our heads around it. I understand the Big Picture, you deal with the actual shock waves and many others deal with their families, communities, etc.
If one starts at the very basics...what is Human Nature? This is simple - it's Desire. That's it. So stigmatizing Desire will never work. Outlawing Desire will never work. Trying to tell people not to Desire will never work.
I once went to a 10 day silent meditation retreat - really serious and perhaps the hardest thing I ever did in my entire life. 11 hours a day of meditation, no talking and don't interact with others. It was all done in the name of "Buddhism", which is basically the science of "finding our nature". I went through all of the stages - it's a science - anxiety, panic, the rolling of the tape of my entire life, my relationships with everyone, etc - they all play put by about Day 6. After that point you start accepting things better - and by Day 9 I "felt something" when the meditation hour(s) were over. I felt a tingle up my spine and a certain contentment. Not Happiness, but rather presence and acceptance.
It was at that point that I realized it was the EXACT same feeling that an opiate (even 60mg of codeine) gave me. "Wow, I thought, it's all the same....everyone is searching for the same thing(s) and one of them is to feel just like this".
I know that may be outside of the medicine and science, but I think it is relevant. I don't like booze. I don't like pot. I like to feel perfectly like myself. No drug really does that...except for one.
I'm sure many will not believe this or delve as deep. Young people are probably more susceptible due to their lack of experience in moderation and other wisdom gained from life. They do things to excess because they figure (like money, sex at that age and more) that More is Always Better. Peer pressure is also there.
You probably have read many of the books - Methland (on meth) and Dreamland (on opiates). Methland put forth a theory which I found valid - that when they developed Meth, they said they found the "perfect drug for humans". This was, of course, before we stigmatized it. Then, they describe how the conditions in the midwest created the perfect "field" for the drug to grow. Wages were cut when the Plants were sold to corporate interests. People needed two jobs....well, meth helps with that. Some people needed 3 jobs - meth definitely helps with that. Then....the same people figured they'd be better off with no jobs and making or selling a bit of meth. In a sense they were correct. Work 2 shifts in a meat-packing plant cutting up cows....or stay at home and party?
This is why some articles suggest these are "Uniquely American Problems". If those meatpackers were well paid Union members with full boat health insurance, vacations and pensions, the percentage that became addicts would be much smaller.
You pay for abortion... I'll pay for the wall. How about that?
Abortions are the law of the land. The wall is Trump's wet dream. There's a difference. That being said, I would love it if only the people who supported the wall paid for it. Or Mexico, like he promised.
No doubt there are some with their presence bothersome even dangerous but the tonnage comes through the ports.
There are two separate issues here: do you want to stop people (be they drug mules or not) or do you want to stop drugs.
The two actually are mutually exclusive. A 30-foot wall will stop someone from scaling it - at least quickly, without support. BUT access roads will be required to build it and to provide CBP access to round up those who breach it.
No idea if drones will replace the POE tonnage in any practical sense soon. The cartels no doubt know best. But drones cannot fly that far with longer distances increasing the opportunity for detection.
For now the needed road access restricts drone usage to the ports or urban areas. Why in the world would we be so silly to build roads right up to the border in isolated areas? Sure, Mexico isn't about to do that. But the closer our roads come to Mexico flight points, the easier it will be for drugs to reach those access roads - on the other side of the wall.
Drones need not clear a wall but need only reach a road on the US side.
The roads that Trump is proposing to build will provide a drug highway - well away from monitoring and CPB to reach drones at landing.
The cartels gotta be loving this ...
Excellent points about the administration creating NEW avenues for smuggling.
In order to build The Wall in some of these areas, access points have to be created to get the materiel to the building sites.
That means roads across the desert where there are none now.
How are all of these new roads going to be monitored?
I sincerely don't get your logic. Because some illegal drugs come through the checkpoints...no illegal drugs come through the border at places without checkpoints?
You seriously think this?
San Diego wanted a better wall...because specifically drugs were getting over their old wall that was as short as 8 feet in some locations.
Warren Buffett's son owns a ranch within sight of Mexico and drug runners freely cross the border traversing his property - no wall - carrying drugs according to him.
If you don't want a wall - you have to do better than pretending that a wall couldn't impede drug trafficking or that all drugs come through the checkpoint.
The Buffet ranch is in Cochise County right across from the Sinaloa cartel across the border. U.S.-based cartel operations are in Tuscon. The drug corridor has existed for years.
Quote:
Years ago, smugglers would bring a load of drugs or people across the border and drive to Tucson or Phoenix, said former Border Patrol chief Michael Fisher, who headed the agency from 2010 to October 2015.
Marijuana was smuggled in small packets on migrants. There was a major raid on the encampment in 2016 with widespread drug arrests both in Mexico and in the US. The US said that "dealt a strong blow to the cartel." The busiest routes have shifted into Texas but ongoing corridor activity remains.
Quote:
But with the evolution of cross-border networks, smuggling patterns now are more akin to “subcontracting,” Fisher said. Drug cartel smugglers often hire U.S. citizens to get drugs across the border or they get the drugs across and then hand off the load to a citizen paid to transport it to Tucson of Phoenix, Fisher said.
How do the drugs physically cross the border:
Quote:
These unlikely smugglers — many of them recruited in bars, high schools, or by family and friends — hide drugs in their car and drive through legal ports of entry, scoop up packets of marijuana fired over the border fence by air cannons, and strap packets of hard drugs to their bodies after hand-offs in the bathrooms of fast-food restaurants in Southern Arizona.
The former lone Mexican mule now has been replaced by a US-kid in a car. U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents accounted for 2/3 of smuggling arrests made by Tucson Sector Border Patrol agents in FY year 2015. That trend goes up each year. Legals account for 81 percent of smuggling arrests along the entire US-Mexico border.
Some drugs could still be brought in by individual illegal immigrants. US demand for marijuana is, however, down. A wall out in the desert really isn't going to impact cartel operations much here unless they turn Trump's new border roads to good use. They've already upgraded.
Last edited by EveryLady; 02-01-2019 at 12:06 PM..
A wall won't prevent what existing border security is catching. Let's spend the money on enhancing elements of border security that are actually getting things done
So where is there no wall? Send it thru there. Send it by submarine, boat drone , airplane and carrier pigeon.
Stunted thinking says no need for a wall because one big bust was made at a point of entry.
Guess who is being played by drug cartels for their flawed logic.
Democrats have picked one aspect of trump's multi point strategy for halting illegal border crossing. they have successfully made it about one aspect, 'the wall!"
Dumb repubs took the bait and now the dems are suggesting the same solutions Trump had already planned to implement along with the wall.
Beyond democrat imagination, a combination of walls, technology and legislation would be extremely effective. Apparently democrats do not want to stop illegal entry and the cascade of problems it generates.
So why do democrats insist on fighting trump???????????????
A wall won't prevent what existing border security is catching. Let's spend the money on enhancing elements of border security that are actually getting things done
Which is WHY we want to force ALL crossing to CHECKPOINTS. DUH!
"Let's spend the money on enhancing elements of border security that are actually getting things done"
Those things ARE part of the package Trump[ wants.
I know the LSM won't tell you this buy it IS true and why you DON'T know about it!
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