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Don't have time to post much now, there's a lot more I'd like to respond to, but you and newtovenice are both wrong and I am right.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/meas.html "Approximately 30% of reported measles cases have one or more complications. Complications of measles are most common among children younger than 5 years of age and adults 20 years of age and older."
Plus much more.
A person not getting a vaccine does not put anyone in danger.
[In fact, it's been shown that whooping cough resurgence has been caused through shedding of the vaccine itself, and the vaccine is contributing to people getting sick, not saving them being sick.]
No one has the right to tell you what to do with your own body. That's called slavery.
And actually if you want to drive 100 mph you can. No one is stopping you from doing so. I see people driving 100 mph on the interstate all the time.
Get arrested much?
Vaccine shedding is the release of virus following administration of a live-virus vaccine. The whooping cough vaccine is not live so cannot possibly be transmitted that way.
Whooping cough came back the newer pertussis vaccine was reformulated to be safer and have fewer side effects than the older version but it isn’t as effective. CDC:
Quote:
Before pertussis vaccines became widely available in the 1940s, about 200,000 children got sick with it each year in the United States and about 9,000 died as a result of the infection.
We are still better off than we were before any vaccine was available. We could stop vaccination and go back to thousands of dead children per year to protect people's freedom though.
Since I was only 6 months old with measles, 7 months with chicken pox, 2 years old with mumps and rubella, I never missed school. Today that would require hospitalization, make national news! My parents quarantined? Mom used to brag about the fact I wouldn't miss school. When all the other kids were coming down with these diseases, I went to school. Never caught those diseases again.
Public schools in CA--including half day kindergarten--did not allow anyone in class with a contagious illness such as measles. Or the mumps. Or the chicken pox.* Missed a lot of school back then due to illnesses for which there are now vaccinations.
*Even in the early 1990s, my own kids were not allowed in school with chicken pox.
I want them to vaccinate me because I believe everything the government says. They've NEVER EVER in their history shown evidence to collude with big pharma.
NEVER!!!!
NOT ONCE!!!!
MONSANTO DOESN'T EXIST!!!!
THE GOVERNMENT NEVER LIED!!!!
Please inject me. I don't care what it is. Just inject me. It doesn't matter that I'm strong and healthy and unlikely to be affected by an outbreak that those who are weaker are, just inject me. I don't care. I'm an idiot.
I do whatever I'm told like a good little sheep.
Ooh, you're another one of those "screw everybody else as long as I'm okay" types.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
The way your sentence is worded it reads as though it is the only one offered in Mass.
And no, there is this lovely value that the USA was built on: Freedom.
If you believe in making medical decisions for other people, you believe in slavery.
Suicidal people are saved (often even despite having DNR orders). Unconscious people are given medical treatment even though they cannot indicate desire or consent. There are many situations in which "medical decisions are made for other people."
And then there's your iteration that it's akin to slavery. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice
Asymptomatic carriers that can infect others... As in people who are vaccinated are INFECTING other people with whooping cough ... so vaccination contributing to cases of whooping cough
Actually, no. What it said was that the vaccine didn't keep people from developing the bacteria... not that it caused them to do so.
I block spam callers' numbers on my phone. That doesn't always prevent spam callers from continuing to call (because they change phone numbers), but it also doesn't CAUSE more spam callers to call me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster
Appeal to authority fallacy.
You know, 20 years ago before the internet was wide-spread, people believed all kinds of BS. People had no idea about things like the third van allen belt, and that cigarettes caused cancer, or that there are limits to economic growth with our current infrastructure.
These same people are now doctors and others in important positions. Lol.
These are your authority figures. What leadership have they provided?
I see nothing but failure all around me.
And who have made these discoveries in the meantime? Oh yes. Authorities who studied these things. And no, I don't expect medical experts to know large amounts about astronomy or economics. Nor do I expect astronomers or economists to know large amounts about medicine.
So in other words, we shouldn't listen to anyone because there is always more knowledge to be gained about every matter under the sun. So you never go to the doctor? Take information from economic advisers? Heed nutrition information? Take advice from your electrician? Believe anything you hear about science? Because, these people know nothing since they don't know everything.
OTOH, I guess you also just made a good argument for why I shouldn't listen to anything you say, either-- not that I ever would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jobster
I don't quite understand this movement. Look at the American population. Unhealthy.
Look at the doctors. Slobs.
Health care is an absolute failure in the US. Take your oil pill to survive. Lol.
Maybe people could try learning how their body is supposed to work and how to properly nourish it and improve it.
That way, their immune system will be strong enough to the point to where they won't require a vaccination.
I will not have some slob tell me what I need to put in my body. If they can knock me out in a boxing ring, I will consider their request.
Funny, I know of many healthy people who get sick anyway, sometimes with serious or terminal diseases you wouldn't expect. You've not seen the news stories of athletes who drop dead during a marathon or basketball game?
The human body, no matter how healthy it is, will never be completely impervious to disease, malfunction, and illness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Pulling the wool over your eyes. Medicine would never do this? My husband this week went to a doctor for his toenail. Overgrown and infected. Doctor said he would give him a "new, better" Tetanus vaccine and write it up that it was necessary so insurance would pay for it.
First of all a Tetanus vaccination for an infected toenail? What new, better Tetanus vaccine? Maybe the new one which includes the Pertussis vaccine as well? Increase THAT booster rate? So why didn't Doctor say that to begin with?????? Shouldn't patients be told specifically what they are getting?
Devious means to increase vaccination rates. I know what my husband was given, but I was not about to tell him this. Doctor says, JUMP and he jumps.
Any adult can refuse any medication, or vaccination, they so choose, and don't need a religious objection to it.
Did you ask what "new, better" meant, or were you just surprised by finding out later if you didn't bother to ask in the first place? Why did you purposely withhold information from your husband if you're so into people knowing these things, and thought this would be to his detriment?
I don’t feel like Vaccinations, religion,sexual orientation, should be forced on anyone. Don’t want a vaccination? Don’t get it. If said person gets sick then it’s on them if they don’t that’s on them too.
Children aren't being forced to have vaccinations. But they are not allowed to register for public schools if they have not been. This is for the safety of all the other children at the school, as well as the teachers.
And the measles outbreak in the northwest was tied to a person from outside the country.
Local news was reporting a Bible Study group at a local church as the first exposure, and indicated someone visiting from Florida as the origin. County health officials haven't found/released who patient zero was yet though.
It's simply a matter of public health in a nation that can easily afford to give vaccines to its children. People may think something like measles is just a funny kid's illness where they get to be covered in red polka dots for a while. Actually measles can have a very devastating impact on those unfortunate enough to become infected with it.
I know first hand what measles can do since my Mom lost much of her hearing to a bad attack of measles when she was just 8 years-old. Needless to say, the vaccine for measles hadn't been developed way back when. If only...
My Mom would have had a vaccination had that been an option. Instead, she suffered all her life from profound loss of hearing. What is more costly to society? Don't all answer at once.
On one level it's tempting to say that people who refuse such basic preventative care deserve to be taken out of the gene pool - hasta la bye-bye, idiots. The thing is that it's not fair to place innocent children in jeopardy in order to placate nut-job parents (who probably benefited themselves from childhood vaccinations). It's also a major public health issue, so get vaccines in order to protect your own family and friends, even if you are willing to risk your own health. If you want to refuse medical treatment and go off to die somewhere, fine by me. If your refusal to get preventive care impacts me and mine however, then you need to follow the law.
My younger brother got the measles just like his three older siblings. Unlike the rest of us, however, he has suffered life-long effects. No measles vaccine in 1960. He could have gotten a globulin shot after exposure - some parents did this - but our doctor at the time wouldn't do it.
Kids have no say in whether they get vaccinated or not, although they are the ones who suffer the heaviest consequences. I'd actually support allowing kids to sue their parents for neglect on this issue. My mother blamed herself for not finding a different doctor to her dying day. My brother is still alive. At 60 years old, he cannot fully take care of himself, so all you folks worried about how your taxes are spent - you're helping to pay for him. He's not the only one you're paying for either.
To me, anti-vaxxers don't meet the Jeffersonian test - refusing to vaccinate kids in effect "breaks my leg and picks my pocket". So yes, there should be no religious exemption for vaccination.
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