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Awaiting more info about Dixie Outfitters as this Yankee is almost entirely unfamiliar.
I have more to mention. The article from Salon did have this quote from Barber himself.
Quote:
It appeals to a community of people that are like thinkers. We share the same feelings of injustice that's been perpetrated on the Southern people. The South's always been a unique area. The culture that the Yankees destroyed was a genteel culture. The ladies had the big hats, the gentlemen were gentlemen. It's about being gentlemen and ladylike
The southern people. Who are those southern people?
And the "genteel culture", what was it?
Most Black Americans have southern roots. Black people didn't benefit from the "genteel, southern way of life". Blacks were the victims of it. That way of life was built from slavery. The culture that was destroyed by the Yankees, was only possible thanks to enslaving Black people. Being gentlemen and ladylike, it didn't apply to slaves.
This leaves this to ask. Who is Barber, and many others who think like him, talking about when saying "southerners" and the "southern way of life"?
I think about this. Ossie Davis narrative a film in the 1960s about the southern way of life. It was filmed in Oxford, Mississippi. I find it bizarre that the University of Mississippi isn't mentioned. It's in Oxford. Ossie Davis said that for the Black people, there is a southern way of life, but rarely have they been asked for their interpretation of it. When asked, it wasn't expressed with the same pride and love that Whites were expressing. In fact, it sounded like a combination of being broken down, being looked down on, and generally, not very nice.
it was once considered rude and immoral to fly a confederate flag, now it been taken to a hint of a albulm cover, and the last year any shade of red would be a prison offends. i guess just some people rae never happy even if it effects them is zero. so why not just give them money instead
I don't remember a time before the mid 2000s when it was immoral to fly a Confederate flag. I grew up around kids who wore Dixie Outfitter shirts.
Many people have always been offended by the Confederate flag. It is now that more people are vocal about it. It is like Ossie Davis said. Rarely have Blacks been asked for their interpretation of the "southern way of life".
After reading the article, I got the feeling that the founder of Dixie Outfitters was trying to deflect any kind of responsibilty in terms of the role of the Confederacy. Black Confederates were mentioned by someone else. However, I could tell it was being mentioned for the purpose of diverting attention from the Confederate cause of keeping slavery intact in the South. Barber, the founder of Dixie Outfitters, went into the same denialism and told some lies. I have a feeling that Barber is someone not worth debating with. He doesn't want to do better. You could take all kinds of evidence and show it to Barber, and he would just get even more defensive about it.
The person who wrote the article was trying to figure things out. He is coming from the perspective of a northerner trying to understand things. You were trying to understand things as a northerner living in the former Confederate state. For you, it is about being an outsider looking in.
In my case, it isn't about being the "outsider looking in". It's about being the descendant of slaves. It's about understanding what the Confederate cause is about and knowing that my it was about enslaving my ancestors. I can't look at it any other way. For that reason, it's not reasonable to venerate symbols of the Confederacy, especially in the post-Civil Rights era. The writer may not be offended. The writer's feelings have likely gone from offense to pity. And if that's true, I get where it comes from. Textbooks used to parrot the Lost Cause lie. Kids were being fed this crap in school. However, using ignorance as an excuse cannot stand much longer. The truth is out there, and the Lost Cause wasn't perpetuated in my high school textbooks during the early 2000s. My history teacher wasn't saying "slavery had nothing to do with it". He did try to tread lightly on the subject. I figure that if kids are being taught better, there is no excuse.
In short, when you would have likely been the victim, you can't exercise much pity or benefit of the doubt.
As for Barber, I think his company is a last gasp. It is a last ditch effort to keep the Lost Cause lie going. With monuments being taken down in a few places, and the Lost Cause being disavowed in many textbooks, and many academics calling BS on the Lost Cause, Dixie Outfitters serves as one of the last outlets for it.
Thanks for your insights, appreciate your thoughtviews & helpful for my better & more fuller understanding.
This is the thing about that piece. I started out thinking it might do the same ^ but ended up being very disappointed.
The author described how he purchased a Confederate flag-emblazoned drink cozy that read “If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson." This was near the beginning.
Then this, from the last paragraph right after that bizarre story about the bumper sticker:
Quote:
The drink cozy succeeded. I am no longer offended by the Confederate flag — not, at least, without a good deal of additional context.
Right off the bat, using the word 'offended' is such a lame a$$, wimpy way to describe how I felt after reading that piece.
As an American person, I am disgusted by the memorials, statuary & confederate flags littering our American public spaces. That crap belongs in graveyards or museums period full stop.
The author received a 'history lesson' evidenced by his descriptions of the people he interviewed. To say he's more tolerant of their distorted history would be one thing ~ to glom onto their distortions is a different story entirely.
It's a 'cartoonish' way to have to live imho ~ like living within the scenes of Gone With the Wind crossed with the new version of The Stepford Wives.
Or, is analogous to the last pages of George Orwell's 1984 where the main protagonist Winston says,
Quote:
”But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.”
Winston has succeeded in forcing himself to neglect logic & demonstrates he has finally mastered the technique of 'doublethink' where one simultaneously believes two contradicting ideas. It's a killer ending & leaves one feeling tortured for him.
it was once considered rude and immoral to fly a confederate flag, now it been taken to a hint of a albulm cover, and the last year any shade of red would be a prison offends. i guess just some people rae never happy even if it effects them is zero. so why not just give them money instead
I would've thought it nearly impossible to distort an already distorted history. Congratulations I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
I don't remember a time before the mid 2000s when it was immoral to fly a Confederate flag. I grew up around kids who wore Dixie Outfitter shirts.
Many people have always been offended by the Confederate flag. It is now that more people are vocal about it. It is like Ossie Davis said. Rarely have Blacks been asked for their interpretation of the "southern way of life".
I don't think there was a time when Confederates, neo-Confederates, & present day alt-right-ers including libertarians thought it was "rude or immoral" to litter American spaces with their Confederate white supremacist crap. After all, they started with the rhetoric, creation of 'martyrs for the 'cause' & so on ad nauseum ad infinity immediately following the Civil War.
& continue in the present day, same old, lame old Confederate crapola.
On the other hand, many folks have been setting the historical record straight, immediately following the war & up to the present day, including you. Some shameless & cowardly folks are 'proud' to claim 'deafness'.
Thanks for your insights, appreciate your thoughtviews & helpful for my better & more fuller understanding.
This is the thing about that piece. I started out thinking it might do the same ^ but ended up being very disappointed.
The author described how he purchased a Confederate flag-emblazoned drink cozy that read “If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson." This was near the beginning.
Then this, from the last paragraph right after that bizarre story about the bumper sticker:
The author mentioned "without a good deal of context". From what I gather, the author feels that context is needed to understand the obsession with Confederate symbols. According to the author, this is how some people deal with frustration. Part of me looks at the author as being both kind of patronizing, pitying those who love such symbols, and trying to fit in with the environment around him.
Quote:
Right off the bat, using the word 'offended' is such a lame a$$, wimpy way to describe how I felt after reading that piece.
As an American person, I am disgusted by the memorials, statuary & confederate flags littering our American public spaces. That crap belongs in graveyards or museums period full stop.
The author received a 'history lesson' evidenced by his descriptions of the people he interviewed. To say he's more tolerant of their distorted history would be one thing ~ to glom onto their distortions is a different story entirely.
It's a 'cartoonish' way to have to live imho ~ like living within the scenes of Gone With the Wind crossed with the new version of The Stepford Wives.
Or, is analogous to the last pages of George Orwell's 1984 where the main protagonist Winston says,
Winston has succeeded in forcing himself to neglect logic & demonstrates he has finally mastered the technique of 'doublethink' where one simultaneously believes two contradicting ideas. It's a killer ending & leaves one feeling tortured for him.
The writer pretty much bought into a warped version of history. Or better yet, the author doesn't get that just because there were Black confederates, it doesn't negate how much slavery was a major factor in secession.
It isn't really cartoonish as it is just it is just said. The author knows what's going on isn't right. However, the author is stuck somewhere between pity and being critical. The author knows that he's been given a bad history lesson. He knows that people around him aren't thinking logically. At the same time, he pities them because they seem like good people. And the author is trying to be is diplomatic, polite, and enlightened as possible.
In my case, I'm not interested in being polite, enlightened, and diplomatic. And from what I gather, neither are you. We're interested in what is the truth, what is right, and what is wrong. You understand as an American that venerating Confederate soldiers and the Confederate flag isn't a good idea. A side needed to be picked. There is no shade of gray when it comes to the bottom line.
I think about that scene from To Kill a Mockingbird. Atticus is representing Tom Robinson, a man accused of raping Mayella Ewell. Tom testifies and says that he didn't rape her, rather, she kissed him. After hearing this, Atticus makes his speech to the jury. Atticus mentions that no actual law was broken, but a social code was broken. He goes on to say that Mayella was a victim of cruel poverty, that he pitied her, but not enough to see a man punished for a crime he didn't commit.
Atticus Finch sees an impoverished White woman who broke a social code. He sees a White woman living close to the bottom. There is pity, but he still understands that she did something wrong. He's stuck between pity and disgust. Unlike the author, Atticus doesn't decides that the right thing needs to be done. No doublethink. Just do the right thing.
To conclude this post, there is one more thing I want to say. I notice that no Black people were given their perspective on the Confederate flag. Statistically, Black Americans are the most likely to be offended by the Confederate flag.
I would've thought it nearly impossible to distort an already distorted history. Congratulations I guess.
I don't think there was a time when Confederates, neo-Confederates, & present day alt-right-ers including libertarians thought it was "rude or immoral" to litter American spaces with their Confederate white supremacist crap. After all, they started with the rhetoric, creation of 'martyrs for the 'cause' & so on ad nauseum ad infinity immediately following the Civil War.
& continue in the present day, same old, lame old Confederate crapola.
On the other hand, many folks have been setting the historical record straight, immediately following the war & up to the present day, including you. Some shameless & cowardly folks are 'proud' to claim 'deafness'.
Those back in the days of the Confederacy didn't think they were doing anything wrong. They didn't think there was anything wrong with slavery. Why else was there such a desire to keep slavery?
Nowadays, those who are against all of this crap are getting more vocal. It's not that the truth is unknown. It's that now, there are people who aren't letting this stuff slide anymore.
Those back in the days of the Confederacy didn't think they were doing anything wrong. They didn't think there was anything wrong with slavery. Why else was there such a desire to keep slavery?
It's about power. Silly that you don't understand that. Especially when you've droned on and on in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
Nowadays, those who are against all of this crap are getting more vocal. It's not that the truth is unknown. It's that now, there are people who aren't letting this stuff slide anymore.
All this crap? lol It's just a flag. The ones who make a big deal about this are nothing more than children looking to create drama where none exists. Waaaahhh poor me.
I don't remember a time before the mid 2000s when it was immoral to fly a Confederate flag. I grew up around kids who wore Dixie Outfitter shirts.
Many people have always been offended by the Confederate flag. It is now that more people are vocal about it. It is like Ossie Davis said. Rarely have Blacks been asked for their interpretation of the "southern way of life".
Their interpretation doesn't matter. nd you can't explain why it does. No ones interpretation matters. It's just more fake drama on your part.
Those back in the days of the Confederacy didn't think they were doing anything wrong. They didn't think there was anything wrong with slavery. Why else was there such a desire to keep slavery?
Nowadays, those who are against all of this crap are getting more vocal. It's not that the truth is unknown. It's that now, there are people who aren't letting this stuff slide anymore.
That really is the crux of the matter right there. "They didn't think they were doing anything wrong." That bit requires mastery of the "doublethink" technique. They weren't fooling anyone back then & they're certainly not fooling anyone in the present day. They need to let go of the obsession of turning the Confederate cause into something honorable. Their 'way of life' was dishonorable. It was indefensible back then & it's certainly indefensible today.
If they had 'let go' back then, we wouldn't have to set the historical record straight today.
The writer pretty much bought into a warped version of history. Or better yet, the author doesn't get that just because there were Black confederates, it doesn't negate how much slavery was a major factor in secession.
This is what a Confederate soldier from Virginia had to say about the Civil War.
Quote:
"I've always understood that we went to war on account of the thing we quarreled with the North about. I've never heard of any other cause of quarrel than slavery.'
I understand that the article mainly takes placec in Harrisonburg,Virginia. The state of Virginia is kind of odd. Northern Virginia is heavily influenced by Washington DC. Many of those places were sleepy, southern towns several generations ago. Virginia was a slave state and seceded from the Union. It was not a big cotton state though. Tobacco was its specialty. So many battles during the Civil War were fought in Virginia. Richmond, the capital of Virginia, was the capital of the Confederacy for a time. Richmond was the only large scale industrial center controlled by the Confederacy. Richmond had the shipyards for the Confederacy while Norfolk's shipyards were controlled by the Union. The Shenandoah Valley, where Harrisonburg (the setting of that Salon article), Staunton (hometown of Jim Crow President Woodrow Wilson), and Lexington (where Robert E. Lee is buried) are located, that was the "breadbasket of the Confederacy". Virginia was a major goods supplier for the Confederacy.
I think Virginia stands at a strange precipice. DC has influenced Northern Virginia. The U.S. military has a large influence on the Tidewater region. And the rest of Virginia still has flourishes of the Old South, for the most part. I wonder if this plays a role in the strange dichotomy of Virginia. Liberal and progressive, and at the same time, will entertain things like white supremacy and the Confederate flag.
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Congratulations I guess. 
