Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The term "redneck" would have a different meaning in Canada. Even so, it is still bizarre to see a Confederate flag in Canada. It's hard to imagine. When I'm discussing "redneck", I'm talking about what it means for here in the USA. As it applies to the Confederate flag, that flag seems to be the flag of choice among "redneck" types here in the USA.
I think the best way to understand what the war has done, is to go to the USA and learn about it. You did just that. Some people might see the Confederate flag as giving them an edgy image, a rougher, tough-guy image. However, that flag is chosen more than other flags. It can't be for nothing. However, to really understand what the Confederate flag issue really is, being in the USA, and particularly the South is a good place to start. It is good for more people to get educated about the Confederate cause and the Confederate flag. The Civil War left its mark on the USA, especially in the South. It continues today.
I'd be interested to understand the etymology of the word 'redneck' in Canada.
When I was living in a former Slaver State of the US, a self-proclaimed 'redneck' claimed "red necks were the only 'real Americans' evidenced by their redecks, white faces, & blue collars ~ the true true red, white & blue.
He was actually a pretty nice guy, apparently he was attempting to acclimate me to my new surroundings. Admittedly, he clued me in to certain things that, frankly, would've likely taken me years to understand. & also introduced me to the various essential 'lingo'. He informed me the origin of the term 'redneck' came from working in the fields, the back of the neck would get sun burnt thus the red neck. Stuff like that.
I've never been to Canada, so I'm thinking of "redneck" as it applies to this country.
I guess if "rednecks" are the only true Americans, I'm not a true America. I don't have a "red" neck or a white face. I come from a white collar background. I've been living in Georgia for a long time. I still don't understand it. I know where the term "redneck" came from. However, there are still some things I will never fully get. Stuff like the Confederate flag I will never embrace or take on as a part of my identity.
After reading that, I'm still left shaking my head. I'm finding that Confederate flag stuff can even be found overseas. I'm wondering how little some people know about the Civil War.
After reading that, I'm still left shaking my head. I'm finding that Confederate flag stuff can even be found overseas. I'm wondering how little some people know about the Civil War.
I think most Canadians know as much about the Civil War, and are taught about it in school, as most Americans. What is different, is that it is just another element of the neighbor south of 49, and the viscerally felt feelings, on all sides, cannot exist and doesn't.
As such the CBF is viewed more like the article said, as a sign of rebellion, hill billy chic, truck culture adornment. It has only been in the last 15-20 years that many in Canada have come to understand it as a symbol of racism, rather than of just "good ole boys". What has really emphasized this more and more is that some of the Proud Boys types groups have come to prominently display the stars and bars in displays, iconography and decals. Those groups are roundly denounced and disgraced, but they do exist.
I think most Canadians know as much about the Civil War, and are taught about it in school, as most Americans. What is different, is that it is just another element of the neighbor south of 49, and the viscerally felt feelings, on all sides, cannot exist and doesn't.
As such the CBF is viewed more like the article said, as a sign of rebellion, hill billy chic, truck culture adornment. It has only been in the last 15-20 years that many in Canada have come to understand it as a symbol of racism, rather than of just "good ole boys". What has really emphasized this more and more is that some of the Proud Boys types groups have come to prominently display the stars and bars in displays, iconography and decals. Those groups are roundly denounced and disgraced, but they do exist.
Interesting change in the discussion of Canada. I live about 2 hours from Canada and have been a few times to do family research. About 8 lines of my family lived in Canada in the mid 19th century and one of them came to Canada in the 18th century after the break out of the Revolution here in the USA. They were the slaves of a Loyalist family and subsequently became known as the "last chattel slaves" held in Canada. They were freed in the early 1800s.
That said, I have reviewed a LOT of black Canadian history. Most of the narratives, writings, interviews, and documentation from black Canadians of the 19th century or earlier indicated that European descended Canadians had the same/similar superiority/inferiority, prejudiced views of both blacks and indigenous people. The main differences according to black people in the 19th century whose experiences/views were documented was the fact that the "law" in Canad was surpreme, unlike the USA. The law would protect the rights of all Canadians whereas in the US our laws did not protect the rights of black Americans prior to the Civil War or afterwards.
So what I mentioned earlier in regards to this flag being a banner for white supremacy, IMO would be the same in Canada. I think many Canadians like to not focus on the personal attitudes and prejudices of their populace both from an historic perspective and present day. That this flag would be popular with "redneck" Canadians IMO shows that that segment is seeking to highlight some sort of power or superiority over other types of people. I'd also wonder if it is a more recent phenomenon if many of these people are just following trends of Americans that they see on TV/media. You noted particular political beliefs and IMO those beliefs are often held by Americans as well who are much more likely to ignore the racial history and implications of various parts of our own nations history and "not care" about "being PC" and they think that this flag is the antithesis of PC. It really is that antithesis because supporting white supremacy and the speaking on, highlighting, and attempting to prove the inferiority of another group of people is very not-PC lol.
Please note though as I stated earlier, my post is not wrought with any emotions. I live in a lot of "research" and history and I know that the flag is a banner for white supremacy and it has always been used for this purpose. So people who adopt it are just taking on that cause IMO and some of them may be ignorant about doing so, but that is what they are doing.
Interesting change in the discussion of Canada. I live about 2 hours from Canada and have been a few times to do family research. About 8 lines of my family lived in Canada in the mid 19th century and one of them came to Canada in the 18th century after the break out of the Revolution here in the USA. They were the slaves of a Loyalist family and subsequently became known as the "last chattel slaves" held in Canada. They were freed in the early 1800s.
That said, I have reviewed a LOT of black Canadian history. Most of the narratives, writings, interviews, and documentation from black Canadians of the 19th century or earlier indicated that European descended Canadians had the same/similar superiority/inferiority, prejudiced views of both blacks and indigenous people. The main differences according to black people in the 19th century whose experiences/views were documented was the fact that the "law" in Canad was surpreme, unlike the USA. The law would protect the rights of all Canadians whereas in the US our laws did not protect the rights of black Americans prior to the Civil War or afterwards.
I would concur that racism certainly existed in Canada, and to some extent, still does, particularly now against First Nations, some Asians and immigrants from Pakistan.
Quote:
So what I mentioned earlier in regards to this flag being a banner for white supremacy, IMO would be the same in Canada. I think many Canadians like to not focus on the personal attitudes and prejudices of their populace both from an historic perspective and present day. That this flag would be popular with "redneck" Canadians IMO shows that that segment is seeking to highlight some sort of power or superiority over other types of people. I'd also wonder if it is a more recent phenomenon if many of these people are just following trends of Americans that they see on TV/media. You noted particular political beliefs and IMO those beliefs are often held by Americans as well who are much more likely to ignore the racial history and implications of various parts of our own nations history and "not care" about "being PC" and they think that this flag is the antithesis of PC. It really is that antithesis because supporting white supremacy and the speaking on, highlighting, and attempting to prove the inferiority of another group of people is very not-PC lol.
The CBF was not viewed from a white supremacy connotations at all until more recently. It just was something that the old South used, and through education, is now understood to represent the reprehensible aspects it does, and especially by the groups and people who use it to perpetuate, proudly, racism and discrimination. I would have to agree the dominance of especially the American media, facilitated by proximity and the internet, has made trends that occur in the USA fashionable in some circles in Canada. Nothing drives me more insane than some Canadian wearing a MAGA hat, and unfortunately, too many do. Invariably, those are the same subset that have a CBF on display.
I've never been to Canada, so I'm thinking of "redneck" as it applies to this country.
I guess if "rednecks" are the only true Americans, I'm not a true America. I don't have a "red" neck or a white face. I come from a white collar background. I've been living in Georgia for a long time. I still don't understand it. I know where the term "redneck" came from. However, there are still some things I will never fully get. Stuff like the Confederate flag I will never embrace or take on as a part of my identity.
I can relate to this from my perspective & experiences. Even here, when I referred to that guy as 'pretty nice' is evidence of my naïveté, then ... & even now.
The Confederate-flag wavers of today are the ideological & psychological descendants of those who were saying
'slavery now, slavery tomorrow, slavery forever' back then, to those who were saying 'segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever' a 100 years later.
My naïveté still shows. In my defense, it certainly doesn't help that these flag wavers often seem to want to be presumed so innocent despite the historical evidence.
I can relate to this from my perspective & experiences. Even here, when I referred to that guy as 'pretty nice' is evidence of my naïveté, then ... & even now.
The Confederate-flag wavers of today are the ideological & psychological descendants of those who were saying
'slavery now, slavery tomorrow, slavery forever' back then, to those who were saying 'segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever' a 100 years later.
My naïveté still shows. In my defense, it certainly doesn't help that these flag wavers often seem to want to be presumed so innocent despite the historical evidence.
I guess it's just how I grew up. I have a hard time giving many people the benefit of the doubt. Whenever I see a Confederate flag flying, nothing but bad things come to my mind.
Things have evolved, but the message had carried similar meanings. It started as a last ditch effort to keep slavery. Then it became the symbol of the resistance against civil rights. Supporters of slavery lost. Supporters of segregation lost. Today, the "up yours" sentiment is still there.
The thing about these Confederate flag wavers, they seem polite and nice enough. However, I sense a seething anger in them. I sense a mentality of "we're under siege".
Interesting change in the discussion of Canada. I live about 2 hours from Canada and have been a few times to do family research. About 8 lines of my family lived in Canada in the mid 19th century and one of them came to Canada in the 18th century after the break out of the Revolution here in the USA. They were the slaves of a Loyalist family and subsequently became known as the "last chattel slaves" held in Canada. They were freed in the early 1800s.
Part of me wishes I had family that had gone to Canada. Maybe I do and don't know it.
Quote:
That said, I have reviewed a LOT of black Canadian history. Most of the narratives, writings, interviews, and documentation from black Canadians of the 19th century or earlier indicated that European descended Canadians had the same/similar superiority/inferiority, prejudiced views of both blacks and indigenous people. The main differences according to black people in the 19th century whose experiences/views were documented was the fact that the "law" in Canad was surpreme, unlike the USA. The law would protect the rights of all Canadians whereas in the US our laws did not protect the rights of black Americans prior to the Civil War or afterwards.
That is one thing that separates Canada from the USA, for the most part. You couldn't defy Ottawa. You couldn't just tell Ottawa to "shove it where the sun doesn't shine". No Fugitive Slave Act in Canada. If you were free, you were free everywhere in Canada. I think for this reason there isn't an equivalent of a North/South divide in Canada that is in the USA.
Quote:
So what I mentioned earlier in regards to this flag being a banner for white supremacy, IMO would be the same in Canada. I think many Canadians like to not focus on the personal attitudes and prejudices of their populace both from an historic perspective and present day. That this flag would be popular with "redneck" Canadians IMO shows that that segment is seeking to highlight some sort of power or superiority over other types of people. I'd also wonder if it is a more recent phenomenon if many of these people are just following trends of Americans that they see on TV/media. You noted particular political beliefs and IMO those beliefs are often held by Americans as well who are much more likely to ignore the racial history and implications of various parts of our own nations history and "not care" about "being PC" and they think that this flag is the antithesis of PC. It really is that antithesis because supporting white supremacy and the speaking on, highlighting, and attempting to prove the inferiority of another group of people is very not-PC lol.
I can't see the Confederate flag any other way. I see it and see a symbol of White supremacy. In my experience, I've noticed a kind of siege mentality among those who fly the Confederate flag. It is a shock to me that it would be flown in Canada.
I think sometimes "PC" is used as a gaslight term.
Quote:
Please note though as I stated earlier, my post is not wrought with any emotions. I live in a lot of "research" and history and I know that the flag is a banner for white supremacy and it has always been used for this purpose. So people who adopt it are just taking on that cause IMO and some of them may be ignorant about doing so, but that is what they are doing.
I have to do research as well. Some things are not excusable. In some cases, one cannot just claim not knowing better. Sometimes the research must be done to confirm the truth.
I guess it's just how I grew up. I have a hard time giving many people the benefit of the doubt. Whenever I see a Confederate flag flying, nothing but bad things come to my mind.
Things have evolved, but the message had carried similar meanings. It started as a last ditch effort to keep slavery. Then it became the symbol of the resistance against civil rights. Supporters of slavery lost. Supporters of segregation lost. Today, the "up yours" sentiment is still there.
The thing about these Confederate flag wavers, they seem polite and nice enough. However, I sense a seething anger in them. I sense a mentality of "we're under siege".
This is how things have evolved:
First it was 'slavery now, slavery tomorrow, slavery forever'.
Then a century or so goes by & it was 'segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever'.
In the present day, they say they would have opposed the Civil Rights Acts.
All while waving the Confederate flag, ideological & psychological descendants.
This is the thing, white supremacy IS their heritage, the flag was not hijacked or co-opted, it meant the same thing back then as it means today.
IMHO, they don't care about appearing to be polite or nice, they want to be presumed innocent, despite the historical record & evidence, same as it ever was.
Not buying it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
