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Heh - complains about a several hundred person sample size (which is perfectly acceptable statistically as long as the sampling methodology is sound) while desiring to use a single anecdotal youtube video instead.
Fails to see the hypocrisy. Par for the course.
Let's call it what it is. Instead of actually listening and considering why so many Blacks,( in spite of a majority being southerners) don't see the Confederate flag as part of southern heritage, some people just gaslight. Let's think of it this way. At least 90 percent of American Blacks have ancestors from the Southern USA. A majority of Black Americans are southerners. And yet, there is a major disconnect. The only persons I hear talking about southern heritage are southern Whites. I almost never hear Blacks speaking fondly of southern heritage, specifically when it comes to the Confederate flag. It's important to understand why.
Let's call it what it is. Instead of actually listening and considering why so many Blacks,( in spite of a majority being southerners) don't see the Confederate flag as part of southern heritage, some people just gaslight. Let's think of it this way. At least 90 percent of American Blacks have ancestors from the Southern USA. A majority of Black Americans are southerners. And yet, there is a major disconnect. The only persons I hear talking about southern heritage are southern Whites. I almost never hear Blacks speaking fondly of southern heritage, specifically when it comes to the Confederate flag. It's important to understand why.
Sure, in your social circle, as in mine, we can share thoughts and ideas, but, outside the realm,
hopefully there are others with different opinions.
Let’s not forget Anthony Hervey, RIP...killed by his own, or maybe they weren’t his own.
Opinions do not negate facts. I might have come up with sampling sizes, but you have only come up with one or two opinions. Until about 50% of Blacks say they view the Confederate flag positively, your one or two videos don't mean anything to me.
And as for Anthony Hervey, he is one man. How many Black people in this country identify with the Confederate flag? Ask yourself that for real. Until it's a plurality or a majority, Anthony Hervey's advocacy for the Confederate flag means nothing to me. Sorry to sound cold, but it is what it is.
Until you can show me that a majority of Blacks identify with the Confederate flag, then your anecdote about Anthony Hervey is an anomaly. Come up with something better. I came up with hundreds of Blacks expressing disdain for the Confederate flag. You can only come up with one or two who do like the Confederate flag.
At the very least, there are some things to consider. The South did lose. When it comes to sports, I get wearing the losing team's jersey, if that is your team. However, when it comes to the Confederate flag, the Confederacy lost, and was dissolved soon after. It no longer exists.
50%, come on...I doubt I can get 50% to agree on anything.
More Blacks should look into Anthony Hervey's book...
Strong words, along with constructive advice for his race, people of all races better get off their high horse and unite.
Regarding the CF, love it, hate it, it's my/your right to do as we choose.
50%, come on...I doubt I can get 50% to agree on anything.
More Blacks should look into Anthony Hervey's book...
Strong words, along with constructive advice for his race, people of all races better get off their high horse and unite.
Regarding the CF, love it, hate it, it's my/your right to do as we choose.
I have done some reading. I've read the Confederate Constitution, the Articles of Secession, the Cornerstone Speech, the words of William Tappan Thompson.
If you like the Confederate flag, just admit it. But I get the feeling you're bothered by the fact that I have a strong objection to the Confederate flag.
... It leaves this question. Why has the Confederate flag often been picked as the symbol of rebelling against integration, civil rights, and equality? Why that flag? ...
Because that flag meant & was the symbol for the same things during the American Civil War as it does today.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell
And so basically what you're saying here is, the minority of people don't get to have a voice, because the majority rules, what's right. There are more than the one man, like that depicted in the video, and it occurred to me that if people could see them as persons rather than black people, then they just might just get some where. All of them have a message which is being dismissed, but then it might be an important message that only a few are meant to understand.
"Traditionalists make up the majority of Confederate battle flag supporters in our sample, weakening the claim that supporters of the flag are generally being driven by negative racial attitudes toward Blacks."
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
I'm saying that just because one or two Blacks say they like it, it doesn't mean the majority do. The whole point of this thread is that the majority of Blacks, despite a majority of them being southerners, do not like the Confederate flag. Admit it and try to understand why that is. Stop bringing on those one or two Black people who like it for the purpose of shutting up the majority.
And after reading that article, this is what I found:
Quote:
As previous work has indicated (Agiesta, 2015; Webster & Leib, 2001), Blacks are in overwhelming opposition to the Confederate battle flag. Our results also confirm this. Our results generally demonstrate an antagonism toward the Confederate battle flag among Black respondents and no factors examined were significant predictors of Black support for the flag. This may be due to a lack of heterogeneity in flag support among the Black respondents. Only 7.3% of the Black sample scored above the midpoint for positive attitudes toward the flag and 60.6% scored the lowest possible value.
Despite the significant bivariate and partial (controlling for all factors) correlations between Southern pride and attitudes toward the Confederate battle flag among Blacks, this association disappeared in our structural equation model, which reduces the influence of measurement error. While this is the first quantitative study we are aware of that evaluates factors possibly impacting attitudes toward the Confederate battle flag among Black Southerners, we are unable to provide any strong conclusions as to the motivations of the minority of Black supporters. However, we can suggest that anti-White racism does not seem to be involved in Black opposition to the Confederate battle flag, as is sometimes portrayed within the Southern heritage view (Woliver et al., 2001). Qualitative research on Black Southerners who support the flag may help identify more useful variables to analyze in the future.
It is the majority that wants to silence the minority.
"we are unable to provide any strong conclusions as to the motivations of the minority of Black supporters." Because people do not understand 'em. Rather than attempt to understand, what they are saying and why they are saying it, the majority would rather silence and/or dismiss them all together. If people would listen rather than try to shout them down and drown out their voice, could be, people might learn something, they didn't already know. Sad part though, the majority believes they are right and the minority is wrong. So what we have here is a case of mob rule, in which, could be, people do understand their message and they don't like it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
I have done some reading. I've read the Confederate Constitution, the Articles of Secession, the Cornerstone Speech, the words of William Tappan Thompson.
If you like the Confederate flag, just admit it. But I get the feeling you're bothered by the fact that I have a strong objection to the Confederate flag.
Honestly I think it is appropriate given to my understanding of individuals that are not prone to trot along happily behind the larger group. The symbolism behind the (southern cross) flag is a testament to the one, who stood for what was right.
Throughout the course of our history there have been the one that didn't go along with the rest. One, whose name is Martin Luther, gave voice to multitudes of people, changed the course of history for Christianity, and lessened the power of the Catholic church and its hold over people. So trust I get it, in ways that it may take you a life time to understand, even if you ever do. When one individual stands out from all the rest and attempts to change the status quo, history has taught us, it has a rippling effect.
As it stands today 45% of the black population polled have neither a positive or negative view of the Confederate Flag, as it hasn't any significance in their lives, what so ever. (evolution, takes time)
It is the majority that wants to silence the minority.
"we are unable to provide any strong conclusions as to the motivations of the minority of Black supporters." Because people do not understand 'em. Rather than attempt to understand, what they are saying and why they are saying it, the majority would rather silence and/or dismiss them all together. If people would listen rather than try to shout them down and drown out their voice, could be, people might learn something, they didn't already know. Sad part though, the majority believes they are right and the minority is wrong. So what we have here is a case of mob rule, in which, could be, people do understand their message and they don't like it.
Honestly I think it is appropriate given to my understanding of individuals that are not prone to trot along happily behind the larger group. The symbolism behind the (southern cross) flag is a testament to the one, who stood for what was right.
Throughout the course of our history there have been the one that didn't go along with the rest. One, whose name is Martin Luther, gave voice to multitudes of people, changed the course of history for Christianity, and lessened the power of the Catholic church and its hold over people. So trust I get it, in ways that it may take you a life time to understand, even if you ever do. When one individual stands out from all the rest and attempts to change the status quo, history has taught us, it has a rippling effect.
As it stands today 45% of the black population polled have neither a positive or negative view of the Confederate Flag, as it hasn't any significance in their lives, what so ever. (evolution, takes time)
Dude, you're just splitting hairs with saying very little with many words. Give it up.
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