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I do believe as scandals like Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar's come out, the Jewish power brokers will step in and decide that a pro-Trump Republican is preferrable to someone like them. I can't wait for this day to happen, and I hope that more radical Muslims gain prominence in the Democratic party, because as liberal as American Jews and the Jewish power brokers in Washington and Hollywood and the media are, they won't stand for this kind of anti-Israel rhetoric and Israel will always be paramount. The American Jews loyalty to their people in Israel trancends any domestic politics. I hope the liberals never realize this.
What geopolitical benefits do we get from Israel? You can’t trust their intel because it’s skewed in their favor. They allow us to preposition equipment there, but it’s for potential conflicts that we shouldn’t be in anyway.
We lost our ass in Iraq, we’re losing in Afghanistan, we accomplished nothing in Syria and Yemen, Libya is a basketcase. So what’s the so-called benefit of this “Israel First” nonsense?
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdetroiter
So. And?
The Republican Party has never done a damn thing for African Americans. Period point blank.
I was going to give a reasoned response to the reply you posted to me in the first quote. Then I read a little further down and saw this gem of a post directed toward someone else.
I had just articulated what Republicans had historically done for blacks, but you just go on spewing false rhetoric which is not backed up by any facts, just your own ideologically skewed and warped perspective.
So why should anyone even bother to answer your questions when you are so factually incorrect and close-minded?
Your sweeping generalizations are not only inaccurate, but overlook many aspects of why Republicans support Israel.
So lets start with a simple one. Israel has the only friendly democracy in the Middle East.
Another simple one is they have geopolitical significance for our national security.
Yet another is that they are culturally similar from a religious standpoint.
Also, while not all Muslims are terrorists by a long shot, both they and we are subjected to Islamic extremists attempting to destroy any western democracy. Thus it creates a common bond between our two nations.
Now lets address your mistaken view.
This country (Republicans in particular) have bent over backwards for blacks whether it be the civil war to free them, civil rights legislation to give them equal status among whites (i.e. citizenship, voting rights, gun rights, etc.)
I don't know how much more you could bend over backwards than giving up your own life to free someone else.
As to homosexuals, their sexual behavior does not make them a group of people like the others you mentioned based on religion and/or race. Yet most (R's) do not have issues with them, provided their abnormal behavior not be put on par with heteros.
As an aside to this, government has a vested interested in it citizens having at least 2.3 children per couple, hence all the tax incentives for marriage and having kids. So while homos are free to engage in their behavior without worry of laws prohibiting it, they obviously do not meet the historic definition of marriage afforded to heteros. Nor do they produce children.
As to American citizens who are of Mexican heritage, please try to explain how they are not treated equally by (R's), as I have no clue what you mean?
Lastly, and possibly your biggest faux pas, is the assumption Jews put Trump on a pedestal. Jews are not monolithic, yet in this country they overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. This despite your claim "(R's) stand up hard for them".
Frankly, I am assuming what you mean by that (i.e. support for Israel), but maybe you mean something different.
If so, please explain?
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In the liberal mind, not allowing open borders and unrestricted chain migration and doing anything to combat illegal immigration (including E-verify and punishing people who hire illegals) constitutes treating Mexican Americans and other Hispanics poorly.
You would never see them bend over backwards for blacks, Mexican Americans or gays. When they get up on their soapboxes, they look hypocritical when you consider how they’ve put Trump on a pedestal.
Because they are an all inclusive bunch of folks, typically rooted in religious beliefs that you help your neighbor and turn the other cheek. That's why. This includes gays and Mexicans too.
Republicans don't put people into groups and discriminate against people (like old white men) just because they're old and white....
I do believe as scandals like Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar's come out, the Jewish power brokers will step in and decide that a pro-Trump Republican is preferrable to someone like them. I can't wait for this day to happen, and I hope that more radical Muslims gain prominence in the Democratic party, because as liberal as American Jews and the Jewish power brokers in Washington and Hollywood and the media are, they won't stand for this kind of anti-Israel rhetoric and Israel will always be paramount. The American Jews loyalty to their people in Israel trancends any domestic politics. I hope the liberals never realize this.
Many if not most of my friends are Jewish. None of them, I can assure you, would be manipulated by or follow the dictates of these so-called "Jewish power brokers." I have full confidence they weigh issues for themselves based on their considerable intelligence and well-developed moral centers.
You assert that the "American Jews loyalty to their people" will transcend "domestic politics." This sure sounds to me like you are saying some innate "Jewishness" will lead them to place Israel before value-based political positions they've held concerning their home country - the United States.
Statements like these have been lambasted on these threads as "anti-Semitic," although no doubt as a Conservative supporting Israel you'll be given a pass. That's fine with me. Folks should be able to express various views without having labels too quickly attached to what they've said. That goes to the heart of open discourse and to tolerance.
Last edited by EveryLady; 02-12-2019 at 04:46 PM..
I think I can answer questions 1, 2, and 4 pretty easily: This is C-D's P&OC forum, and almost any thread brings hateful people out of the woodwork. I'm not sure why there are so many threads like this at this precise moment, except that threads tend to inspire other similar threads on related topics. In a month or two, there might not be any that are currently active. Not excusing it, just pointing out the rather cyclic nature of discussions on here. FWIW, I've wondered for years why the US government is so willing to hop in bed with the Saudis. Oh, wait...oil. That's it.
I do think that sympathy for Palestinians is higher than it once was, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, provided that it doesn't turn into blind hatred for Israel, or for Jewish people in general. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people see that whole situation as a zero-sum game, in which one side must crush the other. I find that tragic.
Lastly, it seems to me that there is growing resentment of foreign aid of any kind, particularly military, being extended to any country. That may play a role, too, as may a certain weariness of involvement in middle eastern conflicts in general. Actually, that is something I can kind of understand. The US has been involved over there for decades, and it doesn't seem to me that the region is any more stable as a result. However, I repeat, I think the main reason is not Israel, but oil. It's always about the money. Always.
I can't address number three, as I honestly don't know enough about the resolutions delivered by the U.N.
Thanks for your thoughts. Very interesting on several accounts.
I do believe that a growing sympathy for Palestinians has translated into an unjustified level of hatred for Israel, which in turn has extended to hatred of Jews, in general. The most glaring example is the BDS movement, and its correlation with higher rates of anti-Jew hate crimes on campuses where the anti-Israel group is most active.
As far as the laser-focus condemnation on Israel exhibited by the U.N. when compared to the near pass given to Arab countries for some pretty horrific behavior, well....that might be an interesting thread all by itself. Maybe I'll start it - but not now. It will attract the haters, and G-d knows, we have three parallel threads going as it is.
I do believe as scandals like Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar's come out, the Jewish power brokers will step in and decide that a pro-Trump Republican is preferrable to someone like them. I can't wait for this day to happen, and I hope that more radical Muslims gain prominence in the Democratic party, because as liberal as American Jews and the Jewish power brokers in Washington and Hollywood and the media are, they won't stand for this kind of anti-Israel rhetoric and Israel will always be paramount. The American Jews loyalty to their people in Israel trancends any domestic politics. I hope the liberals never realize this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady
Many if not most of my friends are Jewish. None of them, I can assure you, would be manipulated by or follow the dictates of these so-called "Jewish power brokers." I have full confidence they weigh issues for themselves based on their considerable intelligence and well-developed moral centers.
You assert that the "American Jews loyalty to their people" will transcend "domestic politics." This sure sounds to me like you are saying some innate "Jewishness" will lead them to place Israel before value-based political positions they've held concerning their home country - the United States.
Statements like these have been lambasted on these threads as "anti-Semitic," although no doubt as a Conservative supporting Israel you'll be given a pass. That's fine with me. Folks should be able to express various views without having labels too quickly attached to what they've said. That goes to the heart of open discourse and to tolerance.
Actually, from this Jew's perspective, what the poster before Lennox said was much more offensive - about the "Republicans bending over for the Jews."
Don't you think liberal blacks would be offended if Jews were to say, "those Democrats are always bending over backwards for blacks"?
All I know how to do is keep it real. But let’s look at it this way...
If Republicans have ever did anything for blacks, so what? And? We don’t owe the Republican Party any gratitude regardless. If the Republicans did anything, they were just doing their jobs. Republicans bend over backwards for the Jewish community and Israel...they don’t vote for Republicans in majority numbers either. So why demand fealty or gratitude from US? We don’t owe y’all squat. Eff the damn Republican Party!!
Plus, it’s not like you modern day Republicans have done anything. You guys hate our guts, so we hate yours.
Case closed.
Republicans hate no one...you're being manipulated to hate by race hucksters and falling for it.
I do believe as scandals like Rashid Tlaib and Ilhan Omar's come out, the Jewish power brokers will step in and decide that a pro-Trump Republican is preferrable to someone like them. I can't wait for this day to happen, and I hope that more radical Muslims gain prominence in the Democratic party, because as liberal as American Jews and the Jewish power brokers in Washington and Hollywood and the media are, they won't stand for this kind of anti-Israel rhetoric and Israel will always be paramount. The American Jews loyalty to their people in Israel trancends any domestic politics. I hope the liberals never realize this.
The GOP already peeled off that segment.
The vast majority of Jewish folks put their actual religion (you know, social justice and all) WAY above the "groupthink" of "power brokers". In fact, among Jews there are really no power brokers. That's the whole idea of intelligence - Jews have a higher IQ than some BECAUSE they reason things out. That is the whole idea of a Jewish education..question everything!
I know exactly ZERO Jews who "see what the boss says" before they make voting decisions.
BUT, having GAB right wingers shoot up their houses of worship.....that's not going to gain votes.
The most the GOP would ever see is about 30% of Jewish voters. Trump only got 24% and he's from NYC (lots of Jewish folks there). Heck, Romney did better with Jewish voters (30%).
Jews, like other religions, are assimilating more and therefore not growing in numbers that you can accurately count. One or two percent of Jewish voters bending one or the other are generally not going to move the needle....especially given the EC and that Jews are concentrated in relatively few states.
Actually, from this Jew's perspective, what the poster before Lennox said was much more offensive - about the "Republicans bending over for the Jews."
Don't you think liberal blacks would be offended if Jews were to say, "those Democrats are always bending over backwards for blacks"?
My larger plea is to look less for offense and more to content. If I understand the points:
"Republicans bend over for Jews" = Republicans court the Jewish vote.
"Democrats bend over for blacks" = Democrats court the Black vote [with various policies].
Neither of this statements strike me as offensive but, on the contrary, as fairly accurate comments that reflect our currently political scene. Maybe I would not turn to the somewhat crude image of bending over to make the point. But that's just me ...
This is exactly the type of analysis that Lennox was doing with his calls to American Jews, albeit using concepts about Jews that some had previously found problematic.
All are based on sectarian politics. It's true that some - frequently Republicans - try to introject racism when decrying sectarian politics, saying things like pitching programs to minority communities is inherently racist since it implies dependence etc.
These are complex issues that perhaps someone of a minority community should weigh in on. They can identify offense, if found.
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