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Old 02-17-2019, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
29,194 posts, read 22,240,647 times
Reputation: 23822

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Well, ya know.......

That's the problem with supporting or being complacent with giving the government so much power.

Sooner or later, somebody who's not "your guy" is going to use that power in a way that you don't like.


I've no sympathy whatsoever.
Not 'the government'. Trump is trying to seize enormous power for the Executive Branch alone by an end-run around the House's control of the national purse.

If he succeeds, he has the ability to pay for anything he wants to do without the need of Congressional approval. Money is power, and when one person can control the Treasury, it is very easy to turn a democracy into a dictatorship.

Any president has our army at his disposal. Without money, an army can't function. That's why the Constitution put the control of our Treasury in the hands of the people's representatives. If any President can take the money at will, he can do anything he wants and can pay to enforce his desires with our army.

Today, it's building a wall. But tomorrow under a different President, it could be closing all our Interstates, taking over a city or a state by force, taking away our firearms, controlling our water supplies or crops, or anything else. Any of it would cost big money to accomplish.

But it all could be done. If Congress loses its powers, it becomes nothing but a needless spare wheel for a President who can do as he pleases, and that includes disbanding Congress to eliminate any opposition.

Every dictator rises the same way; he first develops a base of followers, takes over the Treasury, then gets some Generals in the army to back him up. Then the dictator does away with the government, replaces it with his own bureaucracy, a civil war is usually fought, and the dictator rules for as long as he can hold the power after he wins the war. They always win the civil war because they control all the power.

In Spain's case, Franco's dictatorship lasted 45 years. In Cuba, Castro established a dictatorship that has lasted even longer and may become multi-generational, like the one in N. Korea.

Once a dictatorship happens and the nation does not go to war with another country, it can last for many decades. And they always leave the nation an empty shell of what it once was.
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Old 02-17-2019, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Ft. Myers
19,719 posts, read 16,760,416 times
Reputation: 41862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
LIar Obama manufactured lots of things including national emergencies.

So, now you are a mind reader and know what Obama was thinking ?
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Old 02-18-2019, 01:04 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 7,080,436 times
Reputation: 5612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Did any of Obama's emergency declarations involve an attempt to take spending decisions away from Congress?
No, not one.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,407 posts, read 7,039,011 times
Reputation: 11656
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
Not 'the government'. Trump is trying to seize enormous power for the Executive Branch alone by an end-run around the House's control of the national purse.

If he succeeds, he has the ability to pay for anything he wants to do without the need of Congressional approval. Money is power, and when one person can control the Treasury, it is very easy to turn a democracy into a dictatorship.

Any president has our army at his disposal. Without money, an army can't function. That's why the Constitution put the control of our Treasury in the hands of the people's representatives. If any President can take the money at will, he can do anything he wants and can pay to enforce his desires with our army.

Today, it's building a wall. But tomorrow under a different President, it could be closing all our Interstates, taking over a city or a state by force, taking away our firearms, controlling our water supplies or crops, or anything else. Any of it would cost big money to accomplish.

But it all could be done. If Congress loses its powers, it becomes nothing but a needless spare wheel for a President who can do as he pleases, and that includes disbanding Congress to eliminate any opposition.

Every dictator rises the same way; he first develops a base of followers, takes over the Treasury, then gets some Generals in the army to back him up. Then the dictator does away with the government, replaces it with his own bureaucracy, a civil war is usually fought, and the dictator rules for as long as he can hold the power after he wins the war. They always win the civil war because they control all the power.

In Spain's case, Franco's dictatorship lasted 45 years. In Cuba, Castro established a dictatorship that has lasted even longer and may become multi-generational, like the one in N. Korea.

Once a dictatorship happens and the nation does not go to war with another country, it can last for many decades. And they always leave the nation an empty shell of what it once was.




And Obama didn't even use emergency powers when he unconstitutionally decided to write immigration policy single handedly with the DACA executive order.....and we heard nary a peep from the Left.

So it seems that the Left is just fine with abuses of executive power as long as it's their guy doing the abusing about something that they want....

Your dictator accusations are infantile pablum.


Our system of government, despite being bigger and more powerful than the Founders ever intended, and despite the emergency powers act, still doesn't allow for a dictatorship.


Trump could no more become a dictator in America than he could spontaneously become a ham sandwich.


Settle down Clarence.
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Old 02-18-2019, 03:17 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,407 posts, read 7,039,011 times
Reputation: 11656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Did any of Obama's emergency declarations involve an attempt to take spending decisions away from Congress?


When Trump builds the wall, he should fine everyone who doesn't want it $800.00....

You know...... like Obama did with Obamacare.
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Old 02-18-2019, 05:17 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 23,908,261 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Barack Obama declared 13 national emergencies, with many of them focused on international affairs and containing foreign conflicts, the outlet reported.

For example, in 2012, Obama declared a national emergency entitled, "Blocking Property of Persons Threatening the Peace, Security, or Stability of Yemen" in order to freeze the assets of anyone perceived to be negatively impacting a political transition in Yemen, VOA reported. In 2014, the 44th president issued a national emergency referred to as "Blocking Property of Certain Persons Contributing to the Situation in Ukraine," which similarly locked the assets of those thought to be undermining democratic processes in Ukraine. These are just two of many internationally oriented states of emergency that Obama declared while in office.

https://www.bustle.com/p/did-obama-e...-wall-15722252
It is clear many of the Trump fans do not understand the full implications of Trump's declaration of emergency.

This is made obvious by this comment.

This Declaration of Emergency will alllow Trump to use VAST, LARGE, BIG, LOTS OF -- money from other budgets to pay for his wall.

That's not okay. Those emergencies were not fiscally as significant.

I think this a huge problem with this administration. Many of the folks that support it just don't look at the big picture...they are so determined to accept anything and everything, they cannot understand how this Declaration of Emergency is a dangerous and expensive precedent.

There's nothing we can do -- There is a lack of will to be informed and to just accept whatever Trump says.

Sure some folks did the same with Obama but was it to the same degree -- hard to know. That kind of subjective analysis is difficult to really analyze and be objective about.
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,407 posts, read 7,039,011 times
Reputation: 11656
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
It is clear many of the Trump fans do not understand the full implications of Trump's declaration of emergency.

This is made obvious by this comment.

This Declaration of Emergency will alllow Trump to use VAST, LARGE, BIG, LOTS OF -- money from other budgets to pay for his wall.

That's not okay. Those emergencies were not fiscally as significant.

I think this a huge problem with this administration. Many of the folks that support it just don't look at the big picture...they are so determined to accept anything and everything, they cannot understand how this Declaration of Emergency is a dangerous and expensive precedent.

There's nothing we can do -- There is a lack of will to be informed and to just accept whatever Trump says.

Sure some folks did the same with Obama but was it to the same degree -- hard to know. That kind of subjective analysis is difficult to really analyze and be objective about.



Just think.....

Democrats could have avoided the whole thing if they had just given him the 5.7 billion he was asking for.....

ONE TENTH OF ONE PERCENT of the total budget

But NOOOOOOOOO.... they had to deny Trump any appearance of a victory on the wall issue out of spite.

And it's not like he didn't give them plenty of notice that he would do this if necessary.....


It really begs the question........

Why are Democrats willing to go to such extreme great lengths to do NOTHING about Illegal immigration?
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,444,617 times
Reputation: 24780
Lightbulb Obama's National Emergencies ...

... weren't controversial and didn't attempt to circumvent the Constitution for political BS.

America's getting nostalgic.

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Old 02-18-2019, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
18,407 posts, read 7,039,011 times
Reputation: 11656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
... weren't controversial and didn't attempt to circumvent the Constitution for political BS.

America's getting nostalgic.




But writing an executive order about DACA to do an end run around the Constitution by bypassing Congress to single handedly write immigration law certainly did.



"If congress won't act, I've got a pen and I've got a phone - and I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions that move the ball forward.". ~ Barack Obama

So apparently, the Left is good with abuses of executive powers......

As long as it's your guy doing it.......
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Old 02-18-2019, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
9,569 posts, read 5,587,997 times
Reputation: 12024
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Just think.....

Democrats could have avoided the whole thing if they had just given him the 5.7 billion he was asking for.....


ONE TENTH OF ONE PERCENT of the total budget

But NOOOOOOOOO.... they had to deny Trump any appearance of a victory on the wall issue out of spite.

And it's not like he didn't give them plenty of notice that he would do this if necessary.....


It really begs the question........

Why are Democrats willing to go to such extreme great lengths to do NOTHING about Illegal immigration?
Just think...Trump could have avoided the whole thing if he got Mexico to pay for it like he promised or if the Republicans who were in complete control of Congress for two years had funded his WALL !
Why didn't the Repukes fund his WALL and why are you not holding them accountable on this issue?
Instead you want to blame the opposition party for Trump's terrible leadership & short comings on this issue.
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