Should Israel be the largest recipent of foriegn aid? (legal, CNN, Afghanistan)

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

If you want the truth read your Bible. According to the Bible Israel will never be destroyed. Any country that attacks Israel will suffer. I believe the reason America has prospered is because we support Israel.

[MoMark]

Originally Posted by TNLove

Uh what?



So, because Israel is a Jewish state criticism must be compared to other countries?



You need to get a clue, it's sickening the Zionist propaganda I read.

If I said this statement:
It's racist to criticize the policies of Russia.

Would it be valid? Why, in your opinion, do you think criticizing Israel is a "sign of prejudice?" Because you cannot dare criticize the "Jewish homeland?"



Nobody is.

People complain about Israel's West Bank apartheid policies and occupation of land in direct violation of nearly a dozen UN resolutions.

They already have more territory then originally earmarked in the original UN Mandate (despite originally being a minority); yet still occupy the West Bank -- why? To continue on the Zionist path for "großte Israel".



What are you talking about? The United States was established in the 1700s.

Before the 1500s it was small scattering of savage tribes who warred each other and ran around scalping each other -- they had no written language, no wheel -- no civilization. And they certainly did not inhabit every inch of this country nor have they even attempted to map it.

You're a piece of work TNlove. You not only are Anti-Semitic, you're a white racist..and yes, you are a racist. I've read your other thread about your views on immigration of non-white people into the U.S., and now your rabid description of the American Indians as "savage tribes" who "ran around scalping each other".Your white racism statements on the God ****Illegals thread:
-Like I've said before, Whites are something like <10% of the world population and declining; there is absolutely no reason to destroy us in the name of "diversity" (which, ironically, this massive immigration is going to destroy.
-why should Whites work to become minorities in their own countries? Blacks can go to Africa, Asians to Asia, etc but where will Whites be able to go? There's no point in causing us to go extinct while the world is less diverse than ever.
-If anything 'multiculturalism' is a plan to destroy "White people" at a time world diversity is at an all time low outside of formally White countries.
-The majority of Hispanics in the United States are not White, as the majority in Latin America are not White. The "Hispanic" term seems to be created by the census to see how many "Brown" people are in the country. They even rope obvious non-Whites into the "White" group, it brings up the crime rate statistics for Whites as it includes Hispanics -- the majority of whom (in the United States) are not White.
-you would be lying if you tried didn't notice that the overwhelming majority of everything around you was invented by a White or Asian man.
-there is no point in literally causing the White race to go extinct. We're told diversity is great, so why are Whites working to cause their own demise?-

I think it takes gall to make these statements, both against Jews, American Indians, and all non-white races and then claim righteous indignation when someone calls you on it. Those who are defending the right, for example, to call Israel on it's political policies are absolutely right to differentiate between Israel the state making political policies and decisions, and Judiasm as a religion and way of life. But you blend it together and claim protection for your statements despite your clear attacks on Jews. And furthermore, what those who read this thread may not be aware of is that your statements above reveal you as a racist overall, not just an anti-Semite. As such, you have zero credibility as an impartial critic.
I think your statements of hatred are despicable.

[ontheroad]

You are aware that wikipedia is a rather uncensored, online encylopedia, written by folks like you and me, right?

One of the reasons, or perhaps the best reason the holocuast focuses on the 6m Jews anniliated in WW-2 is it was the largest block of the estimated 12m killed, and it represented nearly the entire Jewish population in Europe.

I won't pretend to have all the facts, but it is also difficult to view remarks that have insufficient historical basis, and are often distorted to either make a point or rally behind a given perspective.

I no more quote the New York Times, Washington Post or other media outlet than tomes I read in school than wikipedia. But I have listened to those that lived through WW-2, fought the war, engaged in the underground, wear a tattoo, not of their making and see the result of man's inhumanity to man.

What we might concentrate on is improving our relationships, and not continue to argue about who is entitled to what, when and how much.

Originally Posted by movin'on

Look, I am going to say something that is not PC, but that is ok. I have the utmost respect for the population I will aim this at, and that's all I can say...



The truth about it all. I need to cite this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[TNLove]

Originally Posted by MoMark

What proof do you need, bags of ashes with names on them? Never seen pictures of the camps or piles of emaciated dead bodies dumped into huge ditches? Wow...and people who remind us of the Holocaust have "done very little research"..and you say this isn't anti-Semitic?

So, what you're saying Mark is that people should not research themselves but simply believe what they've been told because otherwise it would be anti-Semitic? Is researching the Holocaust now anti-Semitic Mark?

Originally Posted by MoMark

Again, if you need more proof that the Holocaust existed, maybe a trip to Poland might be in order, or the Holocaust Museum in Israel. How you trivialize what is perhaps the most evil episode in human history is indefensible.

You're not very bright are you Mark? What you quoted was: "If there is so much evidence it did exist, why would you be thrown in prison for stating your opinion. That's like throwing someone in jail for disagreeing with the colour of the sky."

Perhaps you should reread it and realize I was against the throwing of people in prison for "thought crimes." It seems you don't believe in freedom of speech, do you Mark?

Originally Posted by MoMark

-It seems Israel uses "the Holocaust" to commit their warcrimes in Palestine.

You've used the excuse yourself as to why Israel can seemingly do what they want.

Originally Posted by MoMark

[color="Red"]And you ask me why I've called you anti-Semitic! Nice choice of words with the word Apartheid!

I wrote "They practice apartheid. Non-Jews cannot marry a Jew [/u]and [u]I don't believe they can even own property"

How on earth is criticizing Israel for practicing apartheid anti-Semetic? DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT THE WORD MEANS? Mark, you're a horrible debater and obviously have trouble figuring ANYTHING out unless it's spelled out for you.

Israel's apartheid practice, deserve to be criticized -- have been criticized by the UN and numerous others -- and to call Israel out on their apartheid civil rights violations is *NOT* anti-Semitic.

You're like a robot who sees "Critical of Israeli Policy" and then SCREAMS AND BEEPS "ANTI-SEMITE ALART."

Ridiculous -- this is the kind of Zionist we're up against. Critical of Israel, you're an anti-Semite and don't dare deny it the two go hand and hand! It allows us to do what we want!

[TNLove]

[quote=MoMark;219010]
This demonstrates you don't know the religion you say you claim for yourself through you mother. I'm a fundamentalist Christian with my mother a Christian Irish citizen and I know more than you..the claimed son of a Polish Jew? Do you begin to see where you lose credibility? How could a person who claims his mother is Jewish state that Jews cannot marry non-Jews?[/QUOTE

You seemingly know nothing Mark from what you quoted above. I said Israel practices apartheid (which they do on the West Bank) and in Israel proper you cannot get married unless your partner is Jewish. So, I'm the correct one, you simply don't know what you're talking about -- again and again.

Originally Posted by MoMark

I already blew this false statement apart in outlining Israel's parliament and also Israel's declaration of independence which offered full and equal citizenship to all arabs within the newly created state of Israel.

No -- you didn't. You didn't outline anything. Israel declared independence DESPITE the fact 45% of the population was Palestinian and did not want it. Imagine if a state in the US with a Hispanic majority declared independence and you were a resident, what would YOU do?

And if you bothered to read ANYTHING on the West Bank situation you would realize *IT IS* apartheid.

Originally Posted by MoMark

I pointed out that you using the economic facts have zip to do with the aid Israel receives as 1/9 is economic and 8/9 is military.
...
Why would this be pertinent information if your point wasn't that aid to Israel is unfair because of its economic status? Why did you leave out the fact that only 1/9 is economic and the rest military aid? Convenience for your argument? How did I totally ignore your comment on foreign aide?

What difference does it make whether it is economic or military? We are still giving large sums of money to a first world nation, none of which is in our interests. Even if 1/9th of it is economic that's downright ridiculous -- we certainly don't give any other FIRST WORLD nations economic aid.

You didn't tear any argument apart because I stated the facts and nothing more.

If you compare the aid that we've given to Israel since we began the program, it costs more than double the Vietnam war.

Originally Posted by MoMark

In fact, I tore your biased argument apart!

You couldn't tear yourself out of a paper bag Mark.

Originally Posted by MoMark

Please name ONE example of Israel having used the Holocaust to justify an act of "terrorism"? How about a fact to go with this bold statement? Give one example where Israel claims it's an innocent victim in the Middle East because of the Holocaust?

Let me answer your question with a question: Had the Holocaust "not happened" what legitimate reason would there be for the establishment of the Israeli-state?

[ontheroad]

While you may not believe or wish to consider the reasoning behind the establishment of a Jewish state, the movement began for some of the following reasons,

see http://www.mideastweb.org/thejewishstate.htm

With prejudice against the Jewish people in Europe, the Dreyfus case (~1895), and persecution throughout the Pale, people like Herzl or particularly Herzl tried to form support for a place where Jews would be at rest rather than experience pogram after pogram. Diaspora history and sentiment always supported a return to the Middle East. However, many settlement areas were considered. None were dismissed but none surfaced as adequate or acceptable.

Many of those that experienced pograms left the Pale, and re-settled elsewhere in Europe. Antisemitism continued to flourish, and thousands left Europe entirely, huge numbers and entire families immigrating to the United States after 1895 and until the 1920s and perhaps into the early 30s.

So, that leads us to post WII-2. With approximately 6m Jews dead, thousands in internment camps, and others just getting out of hiding, the Allies developed a plan--a plan that in some ways was what Herzl would have wished--a return to Canaan, a return to the promised land. This plan was devised, somewhat, due to shame and embarrassment, not altruism.

Now, these small facts are not disputable, but can be seen through coloured glasses as inappropriate.

So, I ask again, if a State of Israel had not been formed, albeit poorly, what would you have wished for those remaining Jews who had not been exterminated or emigrated elsewhere? And for the most part, not welcome elsewhere?

[movin'on]

Well, this thread is going to make me a true believer (as in religion) yet. There is so much that flies in the face of logic re: our support of Israel that it must be a God thing.

Too, I resent the implication that just because not as many people were exterminated, collectively, as Jews were, that their lives had less value.

I cited Wikipedia, but have done my research in other venues and this supports what I said.

[ontheroad]

Everybody's life is valuable - precisely why an agrument for or against Israelis, the role of the holocaust as it relates to Israel, how much the US deems to contribute to its coffers is not productive.

And of course we all seek out our own research; mine is no better than anyone elses.

Have a good holiday.

Originally Posted by movin'on

Well, this thread is going to make me a true believer (as in religion) yet. There is so much that flies in the face of logic re: our support of Israel that it must be a God thing.

Too, I resent the implication that just because not as many people were exterminated, collectively, as Jews were, that their lives had less value.

I cited Wikipedia, but have done my research in other venues and this supports what I said.

[movin'on]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

If you want the truth read your Bible. According to the Bible Israel will never be destroyed. Any country that attacks Israel will suffer. I believe the reason America has prospered is because we support Israel.

Does Israel really need our support? I did a stint working for a very rich Jewish guy who is the 4th richest person in this state (or something like that). He charters $10K flights on private aircrafts to fly to his other homes. Let him support Israel. I was eeking out $10 an hour with no benefits working for the guy. He is also a trustee for the AEI (you know, that think tank in DC that thinks we should reshape the Middle East while he has no children putting their lives on the line). I just don't get it. And I am NOT anti semitic whatsever. I just think we need to take care of business in our own back yards.

And no offense intended, but it's the fundamentalists which have supported W. who have gotten us into this mess. Not to contradict myself, but common sense has to filter into religion, somehow.

[dusesean1986]

How many Jews were killed during the Holocaust?