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Does Israel really need our support? I did a stint working for a very rich Jewish guy who is the 4th richest person in this state (or something like that). He charters $10K flights on private aircrafts to fly to his other homes. Let him support Israel. I was eeking out $10 an hour with no benefits working for the guy. He is also a trustee for the AEI (you know, that think tank in DC that thinks we should reshape the Middle East while he has no children putting their lives on the line). I just don't get it. And I am NOT anti semitic whatsever. I just think we need to take care of business in our own back yards.
And no offense intended, but it's the fundamentalists which have supported W. who have gotten us into this mess. Not to contradict myself, but common sense has to filter into religion, somehow.
None taken here, but I have to say this mess has been going on long before Bush, even before America for that matter. As far as the United States, we have been playing the game in the Middle East since 1948, which we can thank Truman and even Roosevelt to some extent.
The Region in a whole is a craap pile, is, was, and always has been. Spent enough time there to last a lifetime. As I always said after my stint, if this is the Holy Land I would hate to see what helll looks like.
You're a piece of work TNlove. You not only are Anti-Semitic, you're a white racist..and yes, you are a racist.
Please even quote on statement of mine that is anti-Semitic. Just one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark
I think it takes gall to make these statements, both against Jews, American Indians, and all non-white races and then claim righteous indignation when someone calls you on it.
The problem here is you're doing what you're doing all along. You don't argue whether what I've said is correct or not, you don't even try. You just spit out insults and ad-hominems like you are actually debating.
Learn how to reply with your own opinion on why something is right or wrong.
You can't go through life calling someone an anti-Semite or a racist and believing it will stifle legitimate debate. One day it's going to catch up with you Mo-Mark.
Quote:
But you blend it together and claim protection for your statements despite your clear attacks on Jews.
Are we still going over this again? PLEASE SHOW ME ONE JUST ONE "ANTI-SEMITIC" statement I have made. I have criticized Israel, not Jews.
So please, respond to the statements and cut out the insults. You're not very bright mark, and you certainly can't debate properly.
Anyone who replaces actual opinions/facts/whatever and simply replaces them with slanders and insults has some learning to do.
I'm done with you Momark -- you have FLAT-OUT refused and ignored to debate me civially. You throw out insults, slanders, ad-hominems, anything to get you from actually responding to the points I've made.
I'm taking the advice of another poster and ignoring you. Maybe if you learn to debate civilly, rather than just insults and slander, we can have another go. Go read a book, get an education, and learn how to argue without slander and insults.
Does Israel really need our support? I did a stint working for a very rich Jewish guy who is the 4th richest person in this state (or something like that). He charters $10K flights on private aircrafts to fly to his other homes. Let him support Israel.
Jews in the United States by and large do support Israel. There are many Jews in the United States that are hardcore Zionists and many that are critical of Israel policy (such as me -- I'm what's called a "self-hating Jew" by the Zionists, and MoMark).
Now, as I've said before, my mother is a Polish-Jew but one thing she is not, is a Zionist. In fact, I would say MoMark is more of a rabid Zionist then any of my family members. A lot of it comes from the religious right nutcases who believe in the "chosen people" and "promise land" and other ridiculous scripture.
I question what would happen in the US if we had 7 million Chinese people come here and take over Florida and claim it as a Chinese state?? Would the people of the US be happy that our land was annexed? I think not!
The issues in the Middle east are just overwhelming to grasp. When did it all start? Post WW2? The Crusades? Back to the days of Christ? Or even earlier?
There had been so many centuries of violence in the region and the Holocaust quite frankly was a horrible experience and unimaginable crime against humanity (some say more than the estimated 6 million Jews died), but it hardly can be blamed for the entire slew of issues in Jew/Arab relations.
Establishing a Jewish state dead center in the Middle East is a terrible idea IMHO. Further destabilizing an already sensitive geopolitical area. Last summer's assault of Lebanon was just the icing on the cake. And since we aid Israel militarily are we not guilty by association for the ruthless bombing of Lebabon as well? For what exactly? One soldier being kidnapped? For that justification we could have leveled Iraq and bombed it into oblivion by now..
[QUOTE=
The issues in the Middle east are just overwhelming to grasp. When did it all start? Post WW2? The Crusades? Back to the days of Christ? Or even earlier?
If you read the book of Genesis you'll see it started when Abraham has a son with Hagar, who's name was Ishmael, because he did not believe God when he told him he would have a son with Sarah. Of course later he did have a son with Sarah named Isaac. The decendents of the two have been fighting ever since and will continue until Jesus returns.
I'm taking the advice of another poster and ignoring you. ]
I take that as a compliment. I will still turn on the light and watch you scamper like a famously unwelcome six-legged creature which runs from the light as racist posts of yours require debunking and challenging.
And your point is??? The United States originally belonged to the Native tribes, but that didn't stop us from taking over & claiming it as our own... every piece of land has gone through "change of ownership" over the years, but that doesn't mean the current inhabitants aren't allowed there. They obtained that land legally, and with the support of the United States, nonetheless. The reason people cry Anti-Semitism at comments like yours, is that I don't hear anyone complaining about who originally owned parts of Europe, North America, Australia, and so on.... get it? It's the targeting of Israel's policies that is a sign of prejudice, unless you're including every other related incident from other countries. While I am Jewish, I'm actually not a hardcore Zionist, so that's why I refuse to debate this issue in detail. But puuuulease... don't give us that crap about who it originally belonged to, unless you're in support of returning all U.S. soil to it's original owners.
Yes. In fact, I am in support of returning the US to the Native Americans, also known as the REAL Americans.
I just thought I'd share this interesting site which offers individual dollars for military (see little type on left) and non-military reciprocal aid dollars by country and region. This is put together by the USAID (an arm of the Department of State).
Some of the figures were quite fascinating - increases and decreases in particular.
If you want the truth read your Bible. According to the Bible Israel will never be destroyed. Any country that attacks Israel will suffer. I believe the reason America has prospered is because we support Israel.
So we never became a power until 1948? How then did we beat both World Wars and all that? Oh yes, and after 1948, we go to Korea. We lose. We go to Vietnam, we lose. Oh sorry, we "retreat with honor." We go to Iraq, the first time, we fail to achieve all of our goals and leave the area in chaos. We go to Afghanistan. They're now in civil war. We go to Iraq, AGAIN, and after 3000 American soldiers have died, we still haven't won. I really don't think the creation and support of Israel has had any postive effect on our ability to prosper. Now personally, I don't believe the loss of these wars is tied to Israel, but since you brought it up, I thought it'd be time to refresh your history lessons, again.
Many people throughout the history of mankind have rewrote the Bible to suit their own needs. Ever heard of Henry the 8th? If you are a Christian but not Roman Catholic, you are indeed practising a religion that was rewritten by a man so he could divorce his wife who could bear sons. Catholicism has also been rewritten and changed throughout time.
P.S. You only have to look as far as the newspaper or CNN to see how Godly the churches and religion of today have become. I think I'll keep my sons out of confession...
P.P.S. I say that there is plenty of stuff in the Bible that is utter crap. If you are a woman, I want pictures of you barefoot and pregnant in your kitchen. If you are a man I want to see your wife. I'm not being a stalker, I just want to know that you are following your religion before you use it as a reason for supporting a corrupt, terroristic, and expansionist nation. For that matter, what type of material are you wearing right now? If it is not full cotton, you are a sinner. What have you eaten lately? Any pork? Is so, you win again, you have sinned. Get the drift?
Sorry to be so rude, but this topic and the use of the Bible as justification for actions makes me tetchy.
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