U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-22-2006, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 11,903,961 times
Reputation: 2000001281

Advertisements

Zionism is simply the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. It's not a dream, it's a fact. And those who are making a big distinction about "good jew/bad jew" based on the term Zionist are rather ignorant in my view. Most Christians automatically embrace zionism as well because they recognize the promise of God to the Israelites to the promised land. Making a distinction as one of the posters does above, without explaining the term, to somehow imply that zionist jews are somehow a problem or issue strikes me as weak. The goal of zionism was the reestablishment of Israel. That happened in 1948. It's a fact, a historical reality. Stating that most people don't understand the difference between a zionist and a Jew, is an empty statement devoid of any meaning. I find it even more stupid when one underscores that statement with "I have quite a few friends who are Jewish, none of them zionist"..so what? Is that supposed to be proof positive backing somehow? What a weak statement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-22-2006, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,645,303 times
Reputation: 919
Should Israel be the largest recipent of foriegn aid?

No, we should the US that is
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2006, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,484,350 times
Reputation: 3826
Words and their meaning, MoMark, often do get confused. Zionism as a movement as compared to the present day meaning of Pro-Israeli policy are frequently interchanged.

Zionism was a movement that started long before the creation of an Israeli state, but is often used to imply "one who supports the State or the retention of the State."

And for good or bad many American Jews do not wholeheartedly or moderately support Israeli policy(ies), thereby declaring themselves "non-Zionist."

I totally support the country's right to exist, while I don't always agree with their policies. I see this as a clear distinction and do not label myself or encourage anyone else to label me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoMark View Post
Zionism is simply the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. It's not a dream, it's a fact. And those who are making a big distinction about "good jew/bad jew" based on the term Zionist are rather ignorant in my view. Most Christians automatically embrace zionism as well because they recognize the promise of God to the Israelites to the promised land. Making a distinction as one of the posters does above, without explaining the term, to somehow imply that zionist jews are somehow a problem or issue strikes me as weak. The goal of zionism was the reestablishment of Israel. That happened in 1948. It's a fact, a historical reality. Stating that most people don't understand the difference between a zionist and a Jew, is an empty statement devoid of any meaning. I find it even more stupid when one underscores that statement with "I have quite a few friends who are Jewish, none of them zionist"..so what? Is that supposed to be proof positive backing somehow? What a weak statement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2006, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 11,903,961 times
Reputation: 2000001281
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontheroad View Post
Words and their meaning, MoMark, often do get confused. Zionism as a movement as compared to the present day meaning of Pro-Israeli policy are frequently interchanged.

Zionism was a movement that started long before the creation of an Israeli state, but is often used to imply "one who supports the State or the retention of the State."

And for good or bad many American Jews do not wholeheartedly or moderately support Israeli policy(ies), thereby declaring themselves "non-Zionist."

I totally support the country's right to exist, while I don't always agree with their policies. I see this as a clear distinction and do not label myself or encourage anyone else to label me.
I completely agree with you. However, I don't associate the term zionism with the activities of the long established and existing Jewish state or it's policies. The state is a state, so the goal of zionism was completed in 1948. Disagreeing with policies of the contemporary Jewish state is not a question of whether one is a zionist or not. A zionist can still agree with the establishment of Israel and criticize and disagree with Israeli government policies!!
I also fully support the right of Israel to exist
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2006, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Journey's End
10,189 posts, read 24,484,350 times
Reputation: 3826
So we agree to agree - where we do

However, modern zionism exists!

http://www.adl.org/durban/zionism.asp
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2006, 07:23 PM
 
9,715 posts, read 12,957,385 times
Reputation: 3315
I don't read anything Momark has posted since I have him on IGNORE.

However, since you quoted him, I have no reason to not respond. Zionists desire to take over the West Bank and Jerusalem. Many Jews here in the USA don't feel this is good. The West Bank also was not a portion of Israel in 1948 -- it was a portion of Jordan.

Zionists are in for the land grab of territories outside of those set aside for Israel in 1948. Many Jews do not agree with this "land grab." You can be Jewish, yet not a Zionist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2006, 07:26 PM
 
9,715 posts, read 12,957,385 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Stating that most people don't understand the difference between a zionist and a Jew, is an empty statement devoid of any meaning. I find it even more stupid when one underscores that statement with "I have quite a few friends who are Jewish, none of them zionist"..so what? Is that supposed to be proof positive backing somehow? What a weak statement.
These type of statements are the reason why I have MoMark on IGNORE and the reason I suggested to others to put him on Ignore too. He does nothing to further discussion but attempts to put down others thinking it makes him look better.

Maybe in his own mind...

"So what?" is something teenagers use as an excuse.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2006, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 11,903,961 times
Reputation: 2000001281
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
I don't read anything Momark has posted since I have him on IGNORE.

However, since you quoted him, I have no reason to not respond. Zionists desire to take over the West Bank and Jerusalem. Many Jews here in the USA don't feel this is good. The West Bank also was not a portion of Israel in 1948 -- it was a portion of Jordan.

Zionists are in for the land grab of territories outside of those set aside for Israel in 1948. Many Jews do not agree with this "land grab." You can be Jewish, yet not a Zionist.
"land grab" 'nuff said. Fancy ever using reason without prejudice to understand issues!

Last edited by Yac; 12-24-2006 at 07:24 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2006, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 638,863 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by UB50 View Post
I don't read anything Momark has posted since I have him on IGNORE.

However, since you quoted him, I have no reason to not respond. Zionists desire to take over the West Bank and Jerusalem. Many Jews here in the USA don't feel this is good. The West Bank also was not a portion of Israel in 1948 -- it was a portion of Jordan.

Zionists are in for the land grab of territories outside of those set aside for Israel in 1948. Many Jews do not agree with this "land grab." You can be Jewish, yet not a Zionist.
UB,
I stuggle with calling this a "land grab". Help me out. to initiate this land grab, what happened that lead to it? Did Israel sneak in at night? Did they come in while the folks in the area were on vacation? Something must have happened. Enlighten me. (hopefully I am not on your ignore list!)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-23-2006, 09:38 PM
 
9,715 posts, read 12,957,385 times
Reputation: 3315
Quote:
Originally Posted by the dufferz View Post
UB,
I stuggle with calling this a "land grab". Help me out. to initiate this land grab, what happened that lead to it? Did Israel sneak in at night? Did they come in while the folks in the area were on vacation? Something must have happened. Enlighten me. (hopefully I am not on your ignore list!)
Ha! Only MoMark is on my Ignore list -- and only because he chose to get personal trying to tell me how to write posts. I figure others can deal with him. I'd rather not bother.

The reason why I think the Zionists are after the land grab is because they are trying to take over the West Bank. After 1948, the West Bank was part of Jordan where the Palestinians lived. During the 1967 war, Israel "won" the West Bank. (Unfortunately, under the rules after WWII, countries can no longer "Win" land.) Israel has basically pockmarked the West Bank with numerous settlements and buffer zones for the settlements and roads for the settlements -- the West Bank is like some giant game board now. (Israel is "occupying" it.) But areas with settlements (and buffer zones and roads) are now under Israels control -- so it IS a land grab. I'd guess that at least 1/3 of the land in the West Bank is now under Israeli control.

It would be like the USA paying American citizens to move to Iraq and set up American towns. Then the US would put buffer zones around the towns, then supply us with our own roads between the towns -- and, well, you get the picture. Americans could take over Iraq if our government offered each of us $250,000 to move to Iraq. Eventually we would argue that the land in Iraq was rightfully ours. That would be a "land grab" by the USA of the country of Iraq.

Some people, like MoMark obvously, think the Bible promised the Jews the entire middle east -- so I guess he thinks they are entitled to wipe everyone off the map over there.

"Zionists" seek to take back the lands that they think the bible promised them. That's why all Jews are not Zionists. A lot of Jews think they are only entitled to the lands given to them in 1948 which made up the state of Israel.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top