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Pay attention - Martina is not saying Trans are mentally ill.
She is saying that forcing Women’s Sports to accept any Male that says he considers himself Femsle will destroy Women’s Sports .... she is correct.
Is this really what the Radical Left wants to do? Put Trans against Lesbians? Destroy Women’s Sport?
Destroy chances for females to get Sports Scholarships for College?
THAT is what Martina is talking about - and I don’t expert her to back off that position.
I’ve met her more than once. She is no coward.
Trans female athletes have been competing for several years now with no indication they will ruin womens sports as you claimed.
And also they will have no effect what so ever on anyone earning an athletic scholarship.
She is right. Unless surgery is performed to transform the male muscle structure into female form they should not be allowed to compete in women's sports. Period.
Pay attention - Martina is not saying Trans are mentally ill.
She is saying that forcing Women’s Sports to accept any Male that says he considers himself Femsle will destroy Women’s Sports .... she is correct.
Is this really what the Radical Left wants to do? Put Trans against Lesbians? Destroy Women’s Sport?
Destroy chances for females to get Sports Scholarships for College?
THAT is what Martina is talking about - and I don’t expert her to back off that position.
I’ve met her more than once. She is no coward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzy jeff
Trans female athletes have been competing for several years now with no indication they will ruin womens sports as you claimed. And also they will have no effect what so ever on anyone earning an athletic scholarship.
Trans female athletes have been competing for more than just a "few years now" -- and Martina is intimately familiar with that.
One of the first (if not the first) was Renée Richards (born in 1934 as Richard Raskind, known to everyone as Dick) - she ended up competing the Women's Tennis Circuit. She played against Martina and later became one of her coaches. This was all a big story in the 1970's - Martina Navratilova was one of the few Tennis Players that supported Renee.
The tennis world split over Richards v. USTA. Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova, both in the closet at the time, supported Richards’ right to play. “Being gay, I felt like an outsider already,” King said, looking back. “Maybe that was the empathy I felt for Renée, because I knew what it felt like to not be welcomed by everybody.”
I know exactly what I'm talking about -- my youngest was a State Track Star, received 32 Scholarship offers. Went to a SEC University and is a NCAA Champion. NONE of that would have happened if she had been competing in Track against a Male that claimed a female identity.
Years later - both Renee Richards and Martina Navratilova have second thoughts about Trans Women in athletic competitions.
I think transsexuals have every right to play, but maybe not at the professional level, because it’s not a level playing field.” She opposes the International Olympic Committee’s ruling in 2004 that transgender people can compete after they’ve had surgery and two years of hormonal therapy.
The science of distinguishing men from women in sports remains unsettled. And Richards has come to believe that her past as a man did provide her advantages over competitors. “Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I’d had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I’ve reconsidered my opinion.” She adds, “There is one thing that a transsexual woman unfortunately cannot expect to be allowed to do, and that is to play professional sports in her chosen field.
They believed that about Professional Sports -- but all sports for both girls and boys begins at a young age - and the teen years cement the talent. That is what Martina is talking about. Renee is objecting to the rules in professional sports that allow Trans to compete AFTER 2 years of hormonal treatment and Surgery. High School and College trans haven't even had that hormone treatment and surgery - they are choosing an Identity.
Anyone who believes that Sports scholarships will NOT go to the top performers, will NOT go the Winners of State Competitions ...... is living in a dream world. They don't give participation Scholarships to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place in Major Competitions. The winner gets the Scholarship and the goal in College/Universities is still to WIN at the NCAA Championships.
Trans female athletes have been competing for more than just a "few years now" -- and Martina is intimately familiar with that.
One of the first (if not the first) was Renée Richards (born in 1934 as Richard Raskind, known to everyone as Dick) - she ended up competing the Women's Tennis Circuit. She played against Martina and later became one of her coaches. This was all a big story in the 1970's - Martina Navratilova was one of the few Tennis Players that supported Renee.
The tennis world split over Richards v. USTA. Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova, both in the closet at the time, supported Richards’ right to play. “Being gay, I felt like an outsider already,” King said, looking back. “Maybe that was the empathy I felt for Renée, because I knew what it felt like to not be welcomed by everybody.”
I know exactly what I'm talking about -- my youngest was a State Track Star, received 32 Scholarship offers. Went to a SEC University and is a NCAA Champion. NONE of that would have happened if she had been competing in Track against a Male that claimed a female identity.
Years later - both Renee Richards and Martina Navratilova have second thoughts about Trans Women in athletic competitions.
I think transsexuals have every right to play, but maybe not at the professional level, because it’s not a level playing field.” She opposes the International Olympic Committee’s ruling in 2004 that transgender people can compete after they’ve had surgery and two years of hormonal therapy.
The science of distinguishing men from women in sports remains unsettled. And Richards has come to believe that her past as a man did provide her advantages over competitors. “Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I’d had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me. And so I’ve reconsidered my opinion.” She adds, “There is one thing that a transsexual woman unfortunately cannot expect to be allowed to do, and that is to play professional sports in her chosen field.
They believed that about Professional Sports -- but all sports for both girls and boys begins at a young age - and the teen years cement the talent. That is what Martina is talking about. Renee is objecting to the rules in professional sports that allow Trans to compete AFTER 2 years of hormonal treatment and Surgery. High School and College trans haven't even had that hormone treatment and surgery - they are choosing an Identity.
Anyone who believes that Sports scholarships will NOT go to the top performers, will NOT go the Winners of State Competitions ...... is living in a dream world. They don't give participation Scholarships to the 2nd, 3rd, 4th place in Major Competitions. The winner gets the Scholarship and the goal in College/Universities is still to WIN at the NCAA Championships.
Thanks for this very informative post.
Based on the considered opinions noted above, I have to agree with Martina and Dr. Richards.
As for the OP, I think the board's decision was short-sighted and, quite frankly, a slap in the face to someone who has done nothing but advance that particular cause.
For a trans female athlete to compete as a female in college sports they must complete 1 full year of Hormone Replacement Therapy. Since most athletic scholarships are awarded before the start of HS students Senior year, a trans female in most cases would of started their therapy during their HS freshman year to earn a scholarship . In almost all cases of trans females that have participated in college sports, took a year off to complete the HRT before competeing in college. To date not one has been awarded an Athletic Scholarship.
This is one of those headlines created to make people think all gay people are behind trans people.
So very, very far from the truth.
I don't even understand why they are lumped together.
An uber-liberal gay, lesbian, or transgender person's emphasis on acceptance and/or tolerating might seem one-sided as they also have to accept and/tolerate those with opposing viewpoints. For example, there are gays and lesbians who might have a view like "I recognize that while marriage is now legal for same-sex couples, I recognize it as being between a man and woman. I am open to civil unions".
As a gay person who is generally supportive of trans rights, I completely agree with Martina.
Even if society can politely respect a person's right to transition to the other gender (use the correct pronoun etc), and I think that should happen, the simple fact is that persons born biologically male will have an advantage when competing in sports against other women, especially if they have gone through male puberty without hormone blockers, as they will have increased muscle mass and bone structure compared to biological women.
People that cannot see this are completely unreasonable imo.
For a trans female athlete to compete as a female in college sports they must complete 1 full year of Hormone Replacement Therapy. Since most athletic scholarships are awarded before the start of HS students Senior year, a trans female in most cases would of started their therapy during their HS freshman year to earn a scholarship . In almost all cases of trans females that have participated in college sports, took a year off to complete the HRT before competeing in college. To date not one has been awarded an Athletic Scholarship.
One year of hormone therapy post puberty is not going to remove the physical advantage biological males will have.
One year of hormone therapy post puberty is not going to remove the physical advantage biological males will have.
My point was in reply to another poster claiming they are going to ruin women sports and steal scholarships. Neither is happening.
While I realize there are contradicting theories on what HRT does to the female body, I am merely making a point that there is very little evidence of trans women with huge advantages thus far. The exception would be power lifting and combat sports where strenght is a main facet.
For a trans female athlete to compete as a female in college sports they must complete 1 full year of Hormone Replacement Therapy. Since most athletic scholarships are awarded before the start of HS students Senior year, a trans female in most cases would of started their therapy during their HS freshman year to earn a scholarship . In almost all cases of trans females that have participated in college sports, took a year off to complete the HRT before competeing in college. To date not one has been awarded an Athletic Scholarship.
Scouting is done before the Senior year -- scholarships are done during the senior year.
At this time, NCAA rules that are a Male to Female Transgender may play on a Women's Team -- BUT that Team is then registered as a Mixed Team. The reverse is not true - Female to Male can play on a Men's team and the team remains a Men's team. The NCAA guidelines also say that a Mixed Team can't compete in the NCAA's. This is what is slowing down the scholarships.
This is a Court case away from change ..... all of it is a matter of a Court Decision.
We have no idea what the future will bring -- it's a matter of applying logic to what the likely decisions bring. Reality is that College Coaches would just about sell their own child for a Championship.
My daughter's coach turned 4 of his athletes into Anorexics - he ended up losing his job over it.
It's all about the WIN.
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they should not be allowed to compete in women's sports. Period.
