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The theory behind why some sports organizations developed their policies were, even though trans female athletes have advantages when it comes to bone density and muscle mass, they have disadvantages when it comes to speed and stamina from the constant dosing of Testosterone Suppression. In many sports bone density and muscle mass are not always key factors in being successful in those sports.
Interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwood66
If you have a physical advantage over others in your chosen sport due to your biology then you should not be able to participate in that sport. Especially when there is money, scholarships, other benefits to winners. It is shameful that these trans athletes would even consider this to be fair play.
Well - that would also eliminate Michael Phelps who had incredible wingspan and other things due to his inherent biology.
Per the post above - are we sure this is actually happening?
Because if the stats bear it out - I agree with you. But I do want to see the stats
Well, I certainly stumbled into a hornets’ nest. The support I normally get from ‘my people’, the LGBT community, was replaced by a barrage of quite nasty personal attacks and I was dropped (jettisoned is a better word) as an ambassador for Athlete Ally.
Conversely, some publications and people that I am at odds with on most issues, such as the Washington Examiner (gasp) and James Woods (double gasp), were strongly supportive of my opinions. Those are unwelcome bedfellows. So where did I go wrong? Or did I go wrong?
The author responds...
Navratilova is experiencing the struggle between emotions and logic. She didn’t think there would be such a disagreement between the two. Her friends are leading with emotion, and she wanted to lead with logic. People like James Woods are defending her out of logic, too, not because they love her. And she is discovering the viciousness of the left towards someone who violates the rules of groupthink.
I think this represents much of what is occurring today in America in various areas... groupthink and peer pressure vs. logic and truth.
Mens times 141.49-142.71 was the range from 1st to 8th place
Womens times 151.38 to 154.82
While there can be other factors like foot size, arm length etc. giving advantage to one swimmer over the other, here you can see a 10 second differential due to gender among the worlds elite and a 1-3 second spread due to everything else.
That's the very reason why they created two separate competition classes in the first place.
Just something to think about. The numbers above prove the magnitude of the difference isn't remotely comparable to other factors."
Hilarious seeing Feminists and Trans getting at each other's throats. Martina is right and this will only turn off normal people from LGBT. A rare win for sanity.
Athlete Ally is a powerful organization when it comes to LGBT inclusion in sports, however not as powerful as the organization that I am part of "You Can Play Project". Athlete Ally is made up of mostly current and former athletes.
When Martina first spoke out against trans athletes, AA reached out to her to discuss the issue. She never responded, only to further issue negative statements. Such as,
Quote; " a man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organisation is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires. It’s insane and it’s cheating".
She refuses to discuss the fact that trans athletes are not "winning everything in site", and men are not becoming women just to compete as women and later in life going back to being a man as implied.
The thing that set Martina off was the cyclist Rachel Mckinnon that recently placed first in a cycling championship. Evidebntly she ignores the fact that Mckinnon has competed 86 times, winning 26 times, placing in the top 50 percent 51 times while placing in the bottom 50 percent 34 times. Far from displaying "clear advantages". https://www.road-results.com/racer/113669
Martina does defend her friend, former coach and trans tennis player Renee Richards, only because she did not have a penis while competing. A little inconsistency in her belief.
Now Martina has every right to voice her opinion and become an advocate against trans athletes, but certainly can not blame an organization that advocates for trans athletes to allow her to keep her seat on it's advisory board.
You don't know anything about the sport of cycling if you think winning 26 out of 86 times isn't "dominating" and if you think placing in the "top 50%" (no one in the sport or who follows the sport ever speaks in those terms) or the "bottom 50%" is a useful data point in isolation.
I really wish ideologues who try to weigh in on issues they don't understand would first attempt to gain some knowledge.
The bottom line in all of this to me is that the genders were separated in the first place because of physical differences that would make competition for females nearly impossible. After that came, a long fight leading up to title IX, which I also agree with. There are many proven societal advantages for girls to be involved in sports.
If someone is going to make the case that you allow trans men, whom I fully support in almost every other way, to turn womens sports on it's ear then an argument could be made that there should be no gender delineation thus unraveling decades of progress in women's equality.
Martina Navratilova was right in the first place. She's not banning anyone or keeping anyone out, she just wants them to compete along established biological delineations that were established specifically because men had too big of an advantage.
She isn't keeping them from competing but rather holding that the inherent advantage that they have was the entire precedent for dividing sports in the first place. Frankly, allowing this would in my mind open up to legal challenge the removal of all gender barriers in sports and no longer having a separation of men and women.
The bottom line in all of this to me is that the genders were separated in the first place because of physical differences that would make competition for females nearly impossible. After that came, a long fight leading up to title IX, which I also agree with. There are many proven societal advantages for girls to be involved in sports.
If someone is going to make the case that you allow trans men, whom I fully support in almost every other way, to turn womens sports on it's ear then an argument could be made that there should be no gender delineation thus unraveling decades of progress in women's equality.
Martina Navratilova was right in the first place. She's not banning anyone or keeping anyone out, she just wants them to compete along established biological delineations that were established specifically because men had too big of an advantage.
She isn't keeping them from competing but rather holding that the inherent advantage that they have was the entire precedent for dividing sports in the first place. Frankly, allowing this would in my mind open up to legal challenge the removal of all gender barriers in sports and no longer having a separation of men and women.
The problem for many (not me) is that the recognition of the bold may stray into other areas of the culture.
You don't know anything about the sport of cycling if you think winning 26 out of 86 times isn't "dominating" and if you think placing in the "top 50%" (no one in the sport or who follows the sport ever speaks in those terms) or the "bottom 50%" is a useful data point in isolation.
I really wish ideologues who try to weigh in on issues they don't understand would first attempt to gain some knowledge.
The point is Mckinnon is not winning everything just like all other trans females who have under gone Testosterone Suppresion Therapy.
And what exactly are issues I do not understand, and whats up with the ideologue BS?
The point is Mckinnon is not winning everything just like all other trans females who have under gone Testosterone Suppresion Therapy.
And what exactly are issues I do not understand, and whats up with the ideologue BS?
No, the point is that McKinnon is indeed dominant in cycling but the ideologues know nothing about the sport and figure that since 26 divided by 86 is 30%, 30% can't possibly be dominant. They would conclude the same about a trans baseball player who "only" gets a hit 30% of the time.
They have no idea what constitutes dominance in these sports but that's irrelevant, anyways, because even if it's conclusively established that one of these trans athletes is dominating, they'll simply move onto a different argument to rationalize why they should still be able to compete as women. These are the sorts of tactics that true believing ideologues routinely make. And that's all across the political spectrum.
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