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Perhaps you didn't read one of the posts above from an Israeli American?
The obvious reason for the "double standard" is that millions of Americans have close connection to Israel and many are ever dual citizens. This is not true of the Joe-Blow islands you speak of.
That's not a double standard.
BTW, who leads the "free Tibet" movement in this country?
Yep, the "left" does. There is not only criticism but a lot of action.
We LOST the War in Vietnam...when you lose you really don't have much pull in terms of what happens next.
I think that should explain why there is no double standard. There are just differences and what you perceive as critique is often "holding them to a higher standard because THEY and WE claim and desire a higher standard?.
I don't think you should have a problem with higher standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mash123
It's called racism of lower expectations, like the Arabs are untermensch. Disgusting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
While there is an occasional thread on the trillions spent in Syria,Iraq,Afghanistan & Yemen, or about atrocities in Myanmar, Africa or Central America, the drumbeat on Israel is much more intense. There's just no comparison. When a stray bullet from the IDF hits a human shield there are all kinds of threads. People want to hold Israel to an impossible double standard.
Sure, but so what? In the above posts, Craigiri talked about it and in reply got a nasty label thrown at him.
People tend to have higher expectations of themselves. Many Americans (Jewish or not) identify with Israel, personally support Israel, and know that our tax dollars and governmental policies helped make Israel possible. Israel works to solidify that identification and that support.
It is a moral position to examine policies or entities you support. That some Central American dictator need first enter into that analysis simply does not compute.
There may well be greater sympathy for Palestinians in the last decade or so. Not being Jewish, maybe I'm not fully sensitive to how some Jews respond. So I try not to judge personal reactions. To receive that same courtesy in return would be a plus. This starts with listening.
PS - I just started reading this thread. Rachel, I'm sorry about your cat. Ours is now about 17 yo. It will be tough to lose her someday.
My condolences on the loss of your cat. It sucks...I know how much it sucks. When it comes to animals/pets, you can find support from anyone no matter their political affiliation. Not everyone attacks the "other side" on every thing in life. It is in these other things that we can find some type of common ground, and from there, you can build on that. I know a "lefty" on here who has been ridiculously supportive when it comes to my pets, as I am to her. It is because of that compassion that I continue to make the effort not to turn my back on all on the left, no matter how tempting it is sometimes. Build on those relationships - they matter.
As for the rest of what you said, I think your refusal to listen when people are telling you exactly why they focus so much on Israel, means that you're not willing to listen to anything at all except "I'm wrong about Israel", which is not only unfair, but in no way ever solves problems.
If you want to get people talking, you have to listen, you have to TRY to understand. As I said, you don't have to like it, you don't have to accept it, you don't have think that they have a point, but at least try to understand where they are coming from. You can't solve anything by saying, "It's my way or the highway, period, end of discussion", because you're just going to further alienate anyone you're trying to reach.
As someone pointed out, it's not JUST the money, but HOW Israel involves themselves in our country, government, etc. Syria is not involving itself in our country, our government, etc. And there's plenty of backlash against Obama, plenty of backlash against radical Islamic terrorists, so to say that there wasn't any is absurd. And yes, that does include people on the left who were part of that backlash.
I realize that you feel strongly about this, and you're free to continue talking about it - no problems, but if you ask questions and refuse to understand where those respondents are coming from, then I have to wonder what really is the point in you asking anything?
Sure, but so what? In the above posts, Craigiri talked about it and in reply got a nasty label thrown at him.
People tend to have higher expectations of themselves. Many Americans (Jewish or not) identify with Israel, personally support Israel, and know that our tax dollars and governmental policies helped make Israel possible. Israel works to solidify that identification and that support.
It is a moral position to examine policies or entities you support. That some Central American dictator need first enter into that analysis simply does not compute.
There may well be greater sympathy for Palestinians in the last decade or so. Not being Jewish, maybe I'm not fully sensitive to how some Jews respond. So I try not to judge personal reactions. To receive that same courtesy in return would be a plus. This starts with listening.
PS - I just started reading this thread. Rachel, I'm sorry about your cat. Ours is now about 17 yo. It will be tough to lose her someday.
Thank you. Appreciate the sympathy.
I've been following along in this thread, but I just don't have much strength for it today. There will be other days.
My condolences on the loss of your cat. It sucks...I know how much it sucks. When it comes to animals/pets, you can find support from anyone no matter their political affiliation. Not everyone attacks the "other side" on every thing in life. It is in these other things that we can find some type of common ground, and from there, you can build on that. I know a "lefty" on here who has been ridiculously supportive when it comes to my pets, as I am to her. It is because of that compassion that I continue to make the effort not to turn my back on all on the left, no matter how tempting it is sometimes. Build on those relationships - they matter.
As for the rest of what you said, I think your refusal to listen when people are telling you exactly why they focus so much on Israel, means that you're not willing to listen to anything at all except "I'm wrong about Israel", which is not only unfair, but in no way ever solves problems.
If you want to get people talking, you have to listen, you have to TRY to understand. As I said, you don't have to like it, you don't have to accept it, you don't have think that they have a point, but at least try to understand where they are coming from. You can't solve anything by saying, "It's my way or the highway, period, end of discussion", because you're just going to further alienate anyone you're trying to reach.
As someone pointed out, it's not JUST the money, but HOW Israel involves themselves in our country, government, etc. Syria is not involving itself in our country, our government, etc. And there's plenty of backlash against Obama, plenty of backlash against radical Islamic terrorists, so to say that there wasn't any is absurd. And yes, that does include people on the left who were part of that backlash.
I realize that you feel strongly about this, and you're free to continue talking about it - no problems, but if you ask questions and refuse to understand where those respondents are coming from, then I have to wonder what really is the point in you asking anything?
Same thanks to you, as well, for your sympathy.
I do have some thoughts to respond to your post, but again, too tired today. Another time. I'm mostly just reading....
While there is an occasional thread on the trillions spent in Syria,Iraq,Afghanistan & Yemen, or about atrocities in Myanmar, Africa or Central America, the drumbeat on Israel is much more intense. There's just no comparison. When a stray bullet from the IDF hits a human shield there are all kinds of threads. People want to hold Israel to an impossible double standard.
Here is a link to the threads that had Israel in the title that were started during the past six months:
Of the 26, 8 were started by either you, Rachel or Pruzhany.
Some are neutral in nature.
This doesn't quite support the narrative being pedaled here. Rachel's argument was that at least twice a week someone posts about the trillions of dollars going to Israel.
Even if that were true - too bad. The very idea that it's antisemitic to criticize the money going to Israel is insane and merely a way to bully people to stop posting things some posters don't want to see.
We have been assisting Israel for far longer so........
Israel is being used as a pass-thru country where all the funds sent there all (100%) ends up back in the U.S. in the hands of U.S. corporations. Yet there is one big difference, there are no feet on the ground in Israel. Egypt has been assisted for the same period of time, yet there's rarely a thread related to their funding. But otoh there are no U.S. feet on the ground there either which is a gain.
Israel is being used as a pass-thru country where all the funds sent there all (100%) ends up back in the U.S. in the hands of U.S. corporations. Yet there is one big difference, there are no feet on the ground in Israel. Egypt has been assisted for the same period of time, yet there's rarely a thread related to their funding. But otoh there are no U.S. feet on the ground there either which is a gain.
We do have feet on the ground in other places Israel wants us. Like Syria.
Israel is being used as a pass-thru country where all the funds sent there all (100%) ends up back in the U.S. in the hands of U.S. corporations. Yet there is one big difference, there are no feet on the ground in Israel. Egypt has been assisted for the same period of time, yet there's rarely a thread related to their funding. But otoh there are no U.S. feet on the ground there either which is a gain.
Our relationship with Egypt is far different than that with Israel. We share a lot more in cultural roots with Israel, and so we expect more from them. Israel is like an annoying cousin at a family dinner, always stirring up trouble. Egypt is like somebody that lives down the street that you never have over for dinner and never talk to. I have no idea why we're giving aid to Egypt expect probably to keep a semblance of parity in the ME. Or its a bribe to stay out of Israel's face.
As far as the "pass thru" thing, that money may return to the US in the form of military purchases, but it is still being paid by US taxpayers and we have a right to demand something in return for that money. I just can't think of anything I want from Egypt.
Our relationship with Egypt is far different than that with Israel. We share a lot more in cultural roots with Israel, and so we expect more from them. Israel is like an annoying cousin at a family dinner, always stirring up trouble. Egypt is like somebody that lives down the street that you never have over for dinner and never talk to. I have no idea why we're giving aid to Egypt expect probably to keep a semblance of parity in the ME. Or its a bribe to stay out of Israel's face.
As far as the "pass thru" thing, that money may return to the US in the form of military purchases, but it is still being paid by US taxpayers and we have a right to demand something in return for that money. I just can't think of anything I want from Egypt.
Without knowing precise dates or figures, I assume the Egyptian aid dates back to Camp David and is a "bribe" to keep the peace. Foreign aid is tied to US benefits for multiple countries. This tends to escape the notice of the average US citizen, who simply sees dollar figures.
That the annoying cousin stirs up trouble from the bully down the street who then comes along and thumps on your head is for SURE a factor in the heightened attention on what the cousin is doing. We like the cousin but just wish at times that he'd behave better. Or do what we want.
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