Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There can be an enormous amount of angst that results from the bridal couple anticipating guests will work around their decisions. In our case, it was an overseas destination wedding at an expensive location with the unspoken expectation that many of the intended guests would be financially covered by the groom's father. That the groom did not first clear this with his father prior to making the wedding arrangements and sending the invitations became more than problematic.
In your family's case, I'm not certain why your future son-in-law did not anticipate that some members of his nuclear? extended? family might find the date problematic. You mentioned that he is secular, and so perhaps it never occurred to him although most secular Jews I know still make a nod to the High Holidays. Regardless, your question is not how to sort out wedding details !!! but how to view "this sort of thinking, acting."
May here also the intended guests would be covered by the groom's father, but then the secular guy would have strategized a mass layoff for cutting costs
Waddya mean "most people are not that way"? You mean you think more highly of Jews who will ignore a major Jewish holiday to attend the wedding of a couple, one of whom has a Jewish family, since the couple didn't even consider the ramifications of scheduling on a major Jewiah holiday? And you think LESS of those stubborn Jews who will not attend the wedding?
And you did admit that your daughter and future SIL didn't even give a passing thought to the fact that his family is Jewish and that they were scheduling a conflict? It's all about them, and the Jews should "act like other faiths" and ignore their own obligations?
(Are you the mama or the daddy in this scenario?)
Let's just put it this way...
I have Jewish friends and I have Mormon friends. I also have members of the family on my wife's side that are Mormon. A very close friend of mine also from a Mormon family. My opinion about what SOME of my Mormon family members and friends tend to think and do is not altogether without criticism for a good many reasons I feel are well justified from a critical thinking standpoint. In some cases that same criticism applies to SOME other people regardless the religion. In other cases, it's more about the commitment to rituals of that particular religion that MOST people are more inclined to disregard, like MOST people I know with these religious backgrounds and/or upbringing that they "shed" as they come of age.
Like say my future son-in-law for example.
Of course this doesn't make any sense to the Jehovah's Witness who knocks at my door, or the two Mormon Missionaries walking down the street in their white shirts and black ties. Doesn't make sense to the Rabbi, priest or minister. Of course not, and how is the thinking or actions on the part of ANY of these people any different fundamentally speaking? I am critical just the way I am critical of people who are racists. Wrong thinking in my opinion, but of course that doesn't keep a racist from being a racist.
If you are asking whether I am the mother or the father here, you make clear once again you don't read many of these comments with much care or close attention...
And I assume you mean you DO have the critical thinking skills that those who disagree with you lack?
You are revealing some real negativity toward Jews. Sorry. You indicated how offended you are by Jews who choose to celebrate their Jewish High Holiday rather than attend a wedding that was scheduled, with utter disregard, to the Jewish holiday calendar - and when one member of the couple has Jewish relatives! Instead of being "put off" by these Jews (you did say it was "off-putting" that they wouldn't attend), perhaps it would be better to apologize for the oversight you daughter and future SIL committed.
Here's what I would suggest you daughter and SIL do: Acknolwedge the mistake. Send out notes to his Jewish relatives who are unable to attend the wedding due to the conflict, and express how sorry they are that in the midst of their excitement, they neglected to consult the calendar. I would add in a note saying that while we will miss you at our wedding, we look forward to seeing you at future family celebrations. If your daughter hopes to have pleasant relationships with her Jewish relatives, that's the smart way to handle it at this point.
But whatever you do, don't turn it around and chastise the Jews for not attending, which is what you did in your first post in the subject.
You are doing it again...
I am critical of what SOME people do in the name of their religion, because of their religion, because of the way they think, and of course that may "reveal" some negativity that I feel about THOSE people. Even then, that's SOME negativity, but that doesn't mean I don't respect other things about these people.
You are again wanting to throw everyone in the same category, as if all Jews think and do the same, or all Muslims, or all Mormons. We ALL know this is also wrong-thinking. You also in this way and other ways continue to consistently misrepresent my thoughts and opinions.
To whatever extent I have better or worse critical thinking skills is a matter of opinion, and needless to say, more often than not, people who disagree with me about such things most vehemently, don't recognize or appreciate my objective reasoning. I could also explain why this happens in my opinion, but I think you are one of those people with which this sort of reasoning is a lost cause.
I cannot believe a Jew told a Christian not to use the computer on Shabbos. Ridiculous.
Of course you can't...
The moderator in the rules of the subforum posted this, "This is a request, not a rule and it will not be considered a violation of any TOS if anyone does not follow the request.
Out of fairness to our members who do observe Shabbat (Jewish Sabbath), I request none of us post in this section during Shabbat (Jewish Sabbath)."
Prior to posting in the thread, I didn't read this "request." Wasn't aware it existed, and I would have never guessed, but when I didn't oblige out of my ignorance about this, I was chastised about posting on the Sabbath. When I asked why, they directed me to the rules in that subforum/topic, Judaism.
We will all apply our own objective reasoning about this, and/or perhaps not so objective, but this is the sort of thing I find very difficult to understand, and as such, I tend to pass critical judgment. For reasons it seems even you might find difficult to understand or accept. "Ridiculous" as you put it. Right. Yet...
Yes, they do sound selfish. And LearnMe is defending them, almost PROUD that they thought only of themselves.
LearnMe: I'm giving you good advice above about writing the notes in which the couple apologize for their oversight. If you daughter wants pleasant relationships with her Jewish relatives, she needs to do this.
I'd consider the advice if it seemed you fully read and understood what I explained about this story, and even then only to a short point. I am very sure that if the apology is warranted as far as my future son-in-law is concerned, he will issue such apology. If he feels such an apology is warranted, he may have done so already for all I know, but that's his business, with his family, not mine.
No matter what my opinion may be about your advice or way of thinking...
Please also understand, I am not "almost PROUD" of my daughter and her fiance but very proud of them. Very proud of both my children and their significant others who have become very good, caring, successful young adults.
Keeping talking Rachel. I'm beginning to come around.
My SIL's father was non practicing jew. When he married a Presbyterian his mother did sit shiva. And she had a lot of company.
IMO, planning a big deal ceremony during any religious observance require polling the whole delegation. It may not mean anything to the couple, but aunts, uncles and cousins matter.
When you have the extended family both my daughter and fiance have and as many friends as they have, work associates too, avoiding the challenge you describe is very difficult above and beyond all the other challenges, like when the venue for your wedding is available for starters. When you can take the time off from work. When your immediate wedding party can do the same, etc...
I believe that aunts, uncles and cousins matter, family matters just like good friends do, but what matters most to some is just not what matters most to others, so I think people tend to lean in the direction of what matters most to them. That may be their religious beliefs or the people who will be at the wedding for other reasons more important to them.
Heck, someone even suggested they wouldn't attend the wedding in the first place because the fiance is not marrying a Jewish person, a marriage to "a goy" I think it was, the problem for them...
I have a very hard time with this sort of thinking, no different than similar objection to interracial marriages, or gay marriages. Racism, xenophobia, sexism, homophobia and all the rest. Backward thinking in my opinion, for reasons I am very glad more and more people are beginning to better recognize over time.
Rather than be critical, cater to them? Like the world revolves around THEM? Apologize to them? With all due respect, I really don't thinks so. Better I think and more civil to simply ignore them until or unless they impose themselves and backward ways of thinking too far with others.
Keep that post in mind the next time I think something is anti-Semitic and you don't
When such a time comes our way, with you or anyone else, the idea is not to agree or disagree by default but to examine why the disagreement exists. You have earned more than a bit of my respect in terms of ability to reason in a more balanced manner, objectively, in my opinion, but that certainly doesn't mean you may next time think something is anti-Semitic that I don't. Right? I'll be sure to let you know in any case, and as I always try to do, explain why I disagree, or agree as perhaps might be more often the case.
If anyone should apologize, it's the groom. The daughter is 30 years-old, the groom I'm sure is old enough to be responsible for his own mistakes. To make my point, I could throw in a stereotyping Jewish mother joke or two about meddling, but that might be anti-Semitic.
btw, Learnme mentioned having a wife. Statistically, that means more likely male than female.
Hadn't got to this comment before I had already explained essentially the same thing. Thanks again...
The statistical probability you also note is fairly certain. You're killing me.
Frankly, as someone who recently got married, I am sick to death of extended family treating the couple's wedding as the "their day", them being the extended family. Getting married is stressful enough without people who barely have a footprint in your lives as a couple dictating what happens on "your day", you being the bride and groom.
This is why people have destination weddings.
Bingo.
Much the way there were people who believed the Earth was the center of the universe, there are still some today who think the same way, about themselves...
Yom Kippur occurs on sundown Tuesday, October 8 to sundown Wednesday, October 9. But the analysis doesn't end there. The entire period September 29 sundown to October 22, 2019 at sundown is pretty well littered with days that Jews won't work, travel or celebrate secular functions. Not all those days but an awful lot of them.
I think "littered" is a good word to use...
No doubt you used that word very intentionally, loaded with meaning, for all of us to evaluate and interpret according to our whims, but thanks for the additional info about the issue here. No doubt part of the problem even though my daughter's wedding is not during Yom Kippur as someone with "oatmeal for brains" was quick to assume.
So pretty much almost the entire month my daughter and fiance chose to get married for all manner of other reasons won't work for SOME Jewish people then. Really, really sorry about that, but far as I'm concerned, their loss.
Last edited by LearnMe; 03-18-2019 at 11:42 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
