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Old 03-11-2019, 03:45 AM
 
399 posts, read 354,533 times
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Obama was generally a better president than Trump. More intelligent, more diplomatic and open-minded. Yet, even intelligent people do stupid mistakes. Sometimes good intentions can cause more trouble than before.

His support for the Arab spring was a total fiasco. All the Arab spring did was destabilizing the Middle East and the resulting wave of terrorism since 2012 (it started in Europe with the oft-forgotten Burgas bombing).

Surprisingly, 2013 was peaceful in Europe, the last full "good old days" year. Most of 2014 as well, but then in Paris in the fall it all changed. All because the relative order in the ME was rocked by the US. Well I miss 2010-2013 when such things were not common at all.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:07 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
31,340 posts, read 14,247,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthy_ View Post
Obama was generally a better president than Trump. More intelligent, more diplomatic and open-minded. Yet, even intelligent people do stupid mistakes. Sometimes good intentions can cause more trouble than before.

His support for the Arab spring was a total fiasco. All the Arab spring did was destabilizing the Middle East and the resulting wave of terrorism since 2012 (it started in Europe with the oft-forgotten Burgas bombing).

Surprisingly, 2013 was peaceful in Europe, the last full "good old days" year. Most of 2014 as well, but then in Paris in the fall it all changed. All because the relative order in the ME was rocked by the US. Well I miss 2010-2013 when such things were not common at all.
More diplomatic - yes
More intelligent -- that's up for debate. As you yourself admitted - his meddling in the middle east has been a disaster at every level.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:19 AM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
38,647 posts, read 26,363,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
More diplomatic - yes
More intelligent -- that's up for debate. As you yourself admitted - his meddling in the middle east has been a disaster at every level.
Right...Obama screwed the pooch on the ME, so he's more intelligent than the guy that didn't screw the pooch on the ME!

Obama sucked by just about every objective measure.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:22 AM
 
22,923 posts, read 15,477,951 times
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The ''T T's'' are getting desperate now.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:26 AM
 
8,377 posts, read 4,359,448 times
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Bad = Obama's stupidity
Good = Trump's glorious rein


Got it.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Texas
38,859 posts, read 25,521,957 times
Reputation: 24780
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthy_ View Post
Obama was generally a better president than Trump. More intelligent, more diplomatic and open-minded. Yet, even intelligent people do stupid mistakes. Sometimes good intentions can cause more trouble than before.

His support for the Arab spring was a total fiasco. All the Arab spring did was destabilizing the Middle East and the resulting wave of terrorism since 2012 (it started in Europe with the oft-forgotten Burgas bombing).

Surprisingly, 2013 was peaceful in Europe, the last full "good old days" year. Most of 2014 as well, but then in Paris in the fall it all changed. All because the relative order in the ME was rocked by the US. Well I miss 2010-2013 when such things were not common at all.
That "Arab spring" was a flop.

Expecting people who see democracy as what their enemies do to embrace openness was folly.

But then, what we have now isn't exactly an upgrade.

Just sayin'...

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Old 03-11-2019, 08:08 AM
 
Location: New Jersey and hating it
12,200 posts, read 7,215,987 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerGeek40 View Post
More diplomatic - yes
More intelligent -- that's up for debate. As you yourself admitted - his meddling in the middle east has been a disaster at every level.
Being "diplomatic" is just a nice way of saying letting our supposedly friends take advantage of us (Mexico, Canada, E.U., etc.) If that is being diplomatic, then I am glad Trump is not!
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:11 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,557 posts, read 17,256,908 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antinimby View Post
Being "diplomatic" is just a nice way of saying letting our supposedly friends take advantage of us (Mexico, Canada, E.U., etc.) If that is being diplomatic, then I am glad Trump is not!
Amen to that!
And what is it about being "open minded" that people seem to find so endearing? People are sometimes so "open minded" that they have no standards and cannot see that some positions and activities are simply wrong.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,879,874 times
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I suggest reading Pat Buchanan's opinion pieces at the time everyone else was enthralled with the Arab Spring. As usual, on foreign policy matters, Pat was right on.

https://townhall.com/columnists/patb...hipers-n960337


Obama basically fell for the same idea that GW fell for. That democracy can be imposed by foreign governments on an area with sectarian rivalries. At best democracy in the ME results in tyranny of the majority.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
24,461 posts, read 17,203,514 times
Reputation: 35719
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthy_ View Post
Obama was generally a better president than Trump. More intelligent, more diplomatic and open-minded. Yet, even intelligent people do stupid mistakes. Sometimes good intentions can cause more trouble than before.

.



Obama was a decent President that like any other had his ups and downs, triumphs and failures.

I do think he was more diplomatic than Trump is and he could deliver a speech like a Reverend on fire but looking back on Obama as a whole I can't help but question if he even "liked" America but he sure knew how to dance the DC shuffle.



He did fail in the Middle East but he was handed a mess to begin with. His policies led to the rise of isis excuse me isil as he called it. I say he also failed at home when it came to reigniting the race wars. He had a chance to lift up "his people" by leading as an example of how far a smart black man could go but instead he allowed them to remain as victims of their white oppressors blaming the system.





History will show that Obama was a typical President just as Trump will be if the Democrats would get off his neck.
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