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Old 03-28-2019, 01:54 PM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,268,656 times
Reputation: 11907

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemsis View Post
Fossil fuels are already costing the country in a negative manner.


America is overly reliant on fossil fuels such as coal, natural gas and oil. This dependence is costly to everyday citizens, and sends valuable dollars overseas and out of the domestic economy.
  • The United States depends on fossil fuels for 85 percent of our energy supply.
  • In 2006, American consumers and businesses spent $921 billion – or close to 7 percent of America’s gross domestic product – on fossil fuels, more than the nation spent on education or the military. In 2008, national expenditures on fossil fuels likely topped $1 trillion for the first time ever. Each year, more than 70 percent of this money is spent on oil.
  • In 2007, America spent more than $360 billion importing fossil fuels, with the vast majority of that money spent on crude oil. That money is a direct transfer of wealth from American consumers to oil companies and foreign governments.
  • For every dollar that an American household spends each year, about 10 cents is likely to go toward the purchase of energy, with most of that money spent on fossil fuels.
Burning fossil fuels is costing us more than new energy solutions in many ways that most here don't appear to realize.


The High Cost of Fossil Fuels


The true cost of fossil fuels
2006, 2009, ....... Breaking News ALERT.

It is 2019 and the USA is a net exporter of fossil fuels. Even close to that in crude oil.
The U.S. Just Became a Net Oil Exporter for the First Time in 75 Years |Bloomberg - December 6, 2018

That was a brief spike - the Reality is that we import very little oil these days and when you combine all fossil fuels including the growing LNG industry -- we are a net exporter of Fossil Fuels.


I don't understand why use way outdated figures and all of the LINKS to Advocacy websites instead of News websites or even examples of what others have tried, and failed to do. It's not very persuasive to promote "scientific" data from over a decade ago.
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Old 03-28-2019, 01:58 PM
 
17,440 posts, read 9,268,656 times
Reputation: 11907
Quote:
Originally Posted by crone View Post
Yeah, but the Texas grid is connected to Mexico. When we need dirty, that's where we get it.
When Oklahoma or New Mexico need an energy boost -- they get it from Texas, is that also "dirty" or is it only "dirty" when Texas needs to supplement for some reason??

Point is ..... Texas does not connect to the US Grid for ANY import.
That is why the Texas Grid is controlled by Texas ONLY. We can (and do) export to other States, IF we need to import electric power, we get it from Mexico so that the Federal Government can't take control of the Texas Grid.
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Old 03-28-2019, 02:16 PM
 
10,513 posts, read 5,166,113 times
Reputation: 14056
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
Point is ..... Texas does not connect to the US Grid for ANY import.
That is why the Texas Grid is controlled by Texas ONLY. We can (and do) export to other States, IF we need to import electric power, we get it from Mexico...

Getting power from Mexico? That needs to stop. We need to build a wall
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Old 03-28-2019, 02:30 PM
 
13,601 posts, read 4,932,646 times
Reputation: 9687
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
EVERY MW of nameplate generation of solar and wind MUST be backed up by a MW of natural gas generation. There is NO EXCEPTION because solar and wind generation are NOT reliable generation. Even in California, everywhere they put up wind farms and accounting for all the solar, they had to build natural gas fired turbine plants to back up that energy. That is a net GAIN in natural gas usage, not a net loss.


I swear, GOD as my witness, what I am saying is 100% true. There are no options. Coal fired plants, nuclear plants... NOTHING can ramp up and down, to match the unreliability of solar and wind like natural gas can. I take that back. Propane could also do the same except LP liquid propane is typically shipped, not piped to the place it is consumed. Nothing else will ramp up or down fast enough to balance the grid. That is why ALL peaking plants, the electric generation plants used during excess peak loads or during a catastrophic failure like a generation plant going down are ALL, 100% natural gas fired plants.
I believe what you are saying is true; you are obviously someone who has worked in that field. What I am trying to understand is this:

When the sun is shining, or the wind blowing, and those renewable generators are making electricity, are the gas-powered back-up generators also working at full capacity, churning out power? If so, you're right, that makes no sense. What happens to the excess electricity?

Or, are the gas-powered back-up generators on stand-by or idle, only to be fired up when needed because the sun or wind have abated? Every hour that the gas-powered generator is idle (because the renewables are generating enough power) represents that much less gas that needs to be burned.

Or is your point that existing coal plants need to be shut down and replaced by gas plants, because only gas can serve as the back-up? I'm OK with that - coal is down to only 27% of our electricity, and hopefully will fall to zero in the future.
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Old 03-28-2019, 02:42 PM
 
23,974 posts, read 15,082,290 times
Reputation: 12952
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
I bet when Ford did that automobile thing folks were not feeling it and refusing to give up their horse and buggy. Some folks never gave up their horse and buggy and they co-exist with those that have never been in a horse and buggy.
Even when NYC residents were confronted with 2.5 million pounds of horse poop and 3 dead horses a day. wonder what it took to clean that up?
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Old 03-28-2019, 02:44 PM
 
23,974 posts, read 15,082,290 times
Reputation: 12952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Getting power from Mexico? That needs to stop. We need to build a wall
Is kinda odd isn't it? They are all rapist and thieves until we want something they have.
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:42 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
I bet when Ford did that automobile thing folks were not feeling it and refusing to give up their horse and buggy. Some folks never gave up their horse and buggy and they co-exist with those that have never been in a horse and buggy.
I guarantee no one was forced to pay for Fords horseless carriage or fund its development.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:08 PM
 
12,265 posts, read 6,472,102 times
Reputation: 9435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
I guarantee no one was forced to pay for Fords horseless carriage or fund its development.
Who built the roads for the horseless carriage to ride on? It wasn`t Henry Ford.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:28 PM
 
45,226 posts, read 26,443,162 times
Reputation: 24980
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
Who built the roads for the horseless carriage to ride on? It wasn`t Henry Ford.
Red herring anyone?
Because ford developed this great advancement in transportation and no one ever would have thought to improve exisiting roads or create new ones, and his newfangled creation would just sit in the barn or out in the field with nowhere to go.
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
10,659 posts, read 10,727,332 times
Reputation: 6745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
I believe what you are saying is true; you are obviously someone who has worked in that field. What I am trying to understand is this:

When the sun is shining, or the wind blowing, and those renewable generators are making electricity, are the gas-powered back-up generators also working at full capacity, churning out power? If so, you're right, that makes no sense. What happens to the excess electricity?

Or, are the gas-powered back-up generators on stand-by or idle, only to be fired up when needed because the sun or wind have abated? Every hour that the gas-powered generator is idle (because the renewables are generating enough power) represents that much less gas that needs to be burned.

Or is your point that existing coal plants need to be shut down and replaced by gas plants, because only gas can serve as the back-up? I'm OK with that - coal is down to only 27% of our electricity, and hopefully will fall to zero in the future.
Are you gaslighting us? The internet is your friend.....
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