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Keep at drunk driving so we don't need to color the discussion w/ slipper slope. Drunk driving is several thousand dollars at most to fulfill whatever sentence gets handed down. Even after repeated violations, the trade off is lost wages. They don't get stripped of everything they own in order to completely ruin them for breaking the law.
Again, welfare money is still money in the economy. Complaining about money being added to the economy does not make sense. That doesn't even factor in that a lot of the costs are sunk and they aren't recouped by there being less people using it ie you don't get a discount on the salary for the cafeteria team because there's no illegals at the school.
What economic hit? We're at under 4% unemployment. Who is not working that could be working?
Hey you brought up drunk driving:
I dont know about where you live but in my state they drop the hammer on drunks. My own brother got nailed 15 years ago.. NO accident. barely over the limit. He had grand 4 beers. His legal fees and fines along with paying for counseling (required), came to just over 12 grand. Luckily he had the money. No money and it would have been jail time. Second offense is jail time and loss of license for 4 years. Now if you live in the city you might be ok. Rural people? You better have friends and family. Maybe you will have a job after prison, likely not.
Illegals. Every single one of them break laws. They have to just to live here. They are not the victims in this story. We the people are because we are footing the bill. How many of those illegals helped to lowball legal citizens out of their livelihoods? How many of those charming illegals have used identity fraud? Used a fake ID, used someone elses ID and caused those victims grief in their lives? How many of those illegals driving illegally and without insurance have fled the scene of the accident? Illegal immigration is far from a victimless crime.
For those complaining the employers don't get punished enough. I agree. That said do you give the car jacker a free pass because the chop shop had plausible deniability?
The economy will adjust and recover from the loss of all those criminals.
This is something that rarely ever gets dwelled on. Our economy is based on the circulation of money & capital. There is no way around that. When spend a $1 in a store, that store is spending $.80 of that $1 in the economy to keep their store running. And their vendors spend $.80 of that $1 to keep their business running. On and on and on, throw in a few loans, and that's how our economy sustains itself and grows.
Now, remove 11M consumers from the economy, each of whom is responsible for helping to circulate $100s - $1,000s/month. What exactly are Conservatives expecting to happen?
The answer is a crash unlike anything we've ever seen, no hyperbole. You would see the immediate collapse of casual dining, agriculture, and housing industries to START with. Then the next big domino to fall would be all the local establishments that these immigrants support with their earnings -- Walmarts/CVS/Walgreens, supermarkets, real estate rentals, etc.
Then comes the same free fall we witnessed during the 08 housing crash because the economy could not keep up w/ the lack of money being circulated.
There's no question that kicking out 11M consumers would be an economic catastrophe. The only question is would Conservatives look around at the ashes of the economy, own it, and say "This is fine."
So which "Kick them all out/no-amnesty/America for Americans" voters on here will admit that they are okay with that outcome and would own it as the result of their philosophy?
Utterly flawed premise and failed OP. Try again, maybe, like a stopped clock, you'll get it right one day.
Illegals are parasite who take far, far more than they give. They provide no "economic benefits" whatsoever.
Anyone who believes illegals provide "economic benefits" is either totally uninformed or willfully ignorant.
Who do you think pays for it when an illegal births an anchor baby? Answer: the taxpayers. Who do you think pays for it when illegals use the ER as their personal doctor? Answer: the taxpayers. Who do you think pays for the education of their kids? Answer: the taxpayer. Don't tell us that whatever rent illegals pay while living in a flophouse with 15-20 other illegals pays for their kids' education. It doesn't even come close. Where I live, a house has to be assessed at $1 million in order for the property taxes to pay for the education of one child.
And before you blather on about illegals paying taxes --- use your head. Just how do illegals pay taxes? When they engage in ID theft or use a fake SSN (that fake SSN could well belong to a living person who, like the ID theft victim, gets put into a world of hurt). Do some googling and learn about the people who discovered that several illegals were using their SSN. If it happens to you, the SSN won't tell you. You only find out when the IRS comes after you for not filing a tax return for a job you never worked.
Then there are the illegals who get paid under the table, which is tax evasion.
Once an illegal births an anchor baby, said baby is eligible for all sorts of welfare programs and as a result, the whole family benefits. All it takes is one anchor baby to make the whole family eligible for Section 8.
Once again, illegals are parasites who take far, far more than they give. Period.
This is true nationwide..in regard to section 8 housing. There are very large low income apt complexes all over Seattle. I got a friend who lives in one. The complex has to be around 98 percent central and south Americans with tons of children. I bet that most of the parents are illegal but the birth of one child on American soil...enables them to get subsidized housing or on section 8. Yet Seattle has one of the worst homeless population's in the USA. These homeless citizens have to wait years on housing lists..while the illegal alien family gets housing quickly. Illegals are smart. They know what they are doing. Have a child on American soil..and they're golden.
You just want the wage protections without paying for it. Unions are workers strongest protections against wage reductions from illegal immigrants. That's a fact.
Unions are passe'.
They served a purpose once, but those days are over.
And what's to keep an Illegal from joining a union in your scenario?
You just want the cheap labor and warm bodies to vote Democrat.
It's really not any more complicated than that.
And yes, Americans SHOULD BE PROTECTED against Illegal labor. There's nothing wrong with wanting that.
This is something that rarely ever gets dwelled on. Our economy is based on the circulation of money & capital. There is no way around that. When spend a $1 in a store, that store is spending $.80 of that $1 in the economy to keep their store running. And their vendors spend $.80 of that $1 to keep their business running. On and on and on, throw in a few loans, and that's how our economy sustains itself and grows.
Now, remove 11M consumers from the economy, each of whom is responsible for helping to circulate $100s - $1,000s/month. What exactly are Conservatives expecting to happen?
The answer is a crash unlike anything we've ever seen, no hyperbole. You would see the immediate collapse of casual dining, agriculture, and housing industries to START with. Then the next big domino to fall would be all the local establishments that these immigrants support with their earnings -- Walmarts/CVS/Walgreens, supermarkets, real estate rentals, etc.
Then comes the same free fall we witnessed during the 08 housing crash because the economy could not keep up w/ the lack of money being circulated.
There's no question that kicking out 11M consumers would be an economic catastrophe. The only question is would Conservatives look around at the ashes of the economy, own it, and say "This is fine."
So which "Kick them all out/no-amnesty/America for Americans" voters on here will admit that they are okay with that outcome and would own it as the result of their philosophy?
Stop calling them UNDOCUMENTED.
They are illegal aliens.
And most of them have stolen SS numbers / identities in order to work.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 21 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,550 posts, read 16,536,658 times
Reputation: 6033
Quote:
Originally Posted by boneyard1962
The OP assumes that there will be an economic collapse. maybe there would be, but the conservatives are not to blame for allowing the system to become dependent upon illegals. The left owns at least as much credit for that.
Illegals need to be dealt with, and by dealt with I don't mean rewarded for breaking our laws.
You cant really blame the left when the right has had enough control to solve the problem.
Only 2 states have full E verify. All the others say that places with less than 500 employees are exempt or have no e verify at all.
Before the Civil War, you would probably have seen similar arguments for keeping slavery legal. In a way, the motive is similar, wealthy people trying to exploit others by keeping labor as cheap as possible.
Yep.
The biggest advocate for illegal immigrants is the chamber of commerce.
They are pushing for amnesty.
Also, they are fine with some of them going on welfare since they like socializing the costs and pocketing the profits. They will push the costs down to everyone else.
Please tell me more how people on public assistance grow the economy? Circulating money doesn't grow the economy, production does. Hence, Gross Domestic Product.
What do hedge fund managers produce other than taking other peoples money to fatten their wallets.
I, like most Americans are willing to try your idea. Build the wall and do whatever neccessary to stem this invasion.
Make Everify mandatory across all states as well.
The states that reject Everify have the highest population of illegals because they are paid off by big business to look the other way.
OP assumes a lot of things, classic strawman fallacy.
OP assumes you can find every single illegal, OP assumes you can kick them all out fast enough to cause a vacuum, OP assumes we can't deal with a temporary dip in productivity, OP assumes companies won't finally resort to using guest worker programs.
Guest worker programs like H1B need to go the way of the dodo bird.
You solve nothing and the cheap labor express still gets their way.
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