This is what Toxic Masculinity Means (soldiers, elect, homosexual, gun)

[Mr.Retired]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

Short Answer: Pressure for boys to "be a man" (i.e. don't be weak, don't show softer feelings - especially feelings of distress) is actually mentally unhealthy. Even without male-female gender relations dynamic, there'd still be a toxicity to masculinity, especially pressure to conform to a societally idealized gender archetype (in this case, a narrow type of masculinity). Personally, I don't worry about manliness at all. Though I'm certainly cisgendered male, I just don't consider masculinity as the core of my identity - but that's a whole other tangent. That still doesn't change the fact that shaming unmanly men very likely contributes to the high rate of male suicide, especially in the Intermountain West.

https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2...is-in-turmoil/

Whaaaaaat?
Say that to the soldier in battle while you are cowering behind as he saves your sassy arse and
you just might get the butt end of his rifle wedged into the side of your melon. There is nothing greater to
exemplify your gender. Man equates his being to courage, strength and the will to triumph over evil.

[T-310]

Originally Posted by rebeldor

There's no such thing as toxic masculinity.

It’s a made up term by feminazis.

[Chicano3000X]

How many people here saying “man up” really just trying to bottle something up or compensate?

Like I agree, be strong in adversity, but your not weak or worthless if you fail and don’t bottle things up.

[Jay F]

I think there is such a thing as toxic masculinity. This explains why men are much more likely to commit violent crimes than women. All men who are violent felons are toxic to the extreme. The problem is the same liberals who push the concept of toxic masculinity are soft on crime, against the death penalty and push parole and probation instead of long prison sentences. If we really want to get rid of toxic masculinity let's start by eliminating the most toxic males from the population through widespread use of the death penalty for violent criminals and more life prison sentences with no possibility of parole.

[momonkey]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

As I recall, suicide statistics would probably go back, at most, maybe to the late 19th century - and even then only in the most scientifically / wealthiest areas of the planet. So that could very well be a culture-based assertion.


At any rate, even assuming your claim is true, the day-to-day living environment in 2019 A.D. is RADICALLY different from what it was even in 1870 A.D., let alone 10,000 B.C. What was a beneficial trait (or even non-detrimental one) back in the Stone Age could easily be detrimental in a Digital Age environment, or at best a useless one.

Phil75230, let me save you some time and personal anguish, if possible.

No one changes their nature during their lifetime.

The traits you were born with are the same ones you will have when you die.

People have evolved, male and female, over hundreds of thousands of years.

During that time we have always been the evolving objects upon which nature acts.

Those that obey nature's dictates will be relatively happy while those that defy nature are certain to be miserable.

In the end, the most fertile couples will determine what will become of the human race.

So throw away your condoms and try to not take this **** too seriously.

[Phil75230]

So much to unpack here!!!!

Originally Posted by redwood66

If you don't teach kids that life is going to suck sometimes and they have to be able to handle it, then you are doing them a disservice. Hence the enormous suicide rates among young people.

Sometimes "handling it" requires help from others, especially if the problem is too big to handle on their own. That remains true even of highly capable people. I just don't find it fair to castigate men given too much to handle on their own. Telling them to "man up", etc. is just going to make it worse, namely by further intimidating them from opening up about what is really causing them to want to die.

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

Look, despite what is being shoved down everyone's throat in the media - there are norms to humanity. Male and Female norms exist, and there's nothing wrong with that. You may fall outside of that norm, but that doesn't mean society has to change the norms as a result. You can function in society without everyone putting your condition on a pedestal. Just live your life and stop trying to force everyone else change to conform to you.

If there's any shoving stuff down others throats, it's people trying to a man should be "all this" and "all that" when it comes to society's traditional gender expectations. How is it fair to slam all the "be strong, be hard, don't be a wuss, don't complain, etc."? Instead of seeing such men as worthy of castigation, it should be seen as a cry for help. Again, this demeaning of men who have too much put on their shoulders is probably contributing to the suicide problem.

Originally Posted by BlakeJones

Well it's toxic to the OP because he's been rejected by society, but there's plenty of places he can go these days to live happily

How are you so sure about how my social life is, way away from me as you are? I do have my fair share of real world friends and outside-home-and-work activities (astronomy club, food bank, and such). So you're presumption about how I must be is just that - presumption, and cheap psychologizing besides.

Originally Posted by rbohm

very true. the term toxic masculinity is just something to try and force men into being anything other than what we need to be to survive in this world. we need strong minds, strong spirits, and preferably strong bodies to make our way through this world.


as the line in the johnny cash song a boy named sue goes, "this world is rough and if a man is going to make he has got to be tough".

Care to tell men how castigating males for being weak in mind or spirit or body is going to actually purge those weaknesses from him? Or are you just repeating a long-established-but-wrong cultural meme that says if a man is weak he's worthy of whatever disrespect that comes his way.

Originally Posted by rbohm

op if you wan tot go through life as a beta male, one with no real direction in life, always afraid of things, trying to always please others, and never really standing up for yourself, thats fine for you. i on the other hand, despite my illnesses(diabetes, end stage kidney disease, hypertension) that have weakened my body, will continue to be strong in mind and spirit and continue to urge others to be the same way, male or female.

More two-cent psychoanalysis conducted from way far away. I'm doing pretty well at work as a store manager, and not particularly fearful of anything. Pleasing others? Why would I want to please people whose values and attitudes are so different from mine? Assertive? No probs in that department too. I'm asserting the right of men to not be pressured to hold in his feelings and express his concerns and worries - in short, be beta without social stigma. [/quote]

Originally Posted by RMESMH

Beat me to it.

The OP claims that he doesn't define himself/think about himself in such a way....but if he didn't, he never would have started this thread.

You missed the point. My problem is not certain men being "alpha". The point is castigating men who feel pressured to be something that they are, as individuals, not; and adding insult to injury by calling them unworthy of even the basics of dignity and respect on account of their failure to be "manly men"

Originally Posted by Mr.Retired

Whaaaaaat?
Say that to the soldier in battle while you are cowering behind as he saves your sassy arse and
you just might get the butt end of his rifle wedged into the side of your melon. There is nothing greater to
exemplify your gender. Man equates his being to courage, strength and the will to triumph over evil.

The OP has nothing to do with military service or combat. Military men need a shoulder to cry on too. I'm sure they get lots of unrealilstic expectations too. At any rate, are you saying that any man who is mentally or spiritually unfit for military service deserve humiliating abusive treatment? That's sure what it sounds like.

[doc1]

“We still really embrace that rugged individualism, cowboy mentality,” in the western U.S., “the response is: ‘Pull yourself up by your bootstraps...’”

I just don't consider those attributes as "toxic" at all. I'm sure there are still plenty of women who find them admirable and desirable.

Obviously any person who suffers from emotional or mental illness should get help but by and large I don't see historical masculine traits as toxic.

Fortunately for me neither does my wife.

Nor my son's 26 y/o girlfriend.

[Cape Cod Todd]

Originally Posted by Tarkinson

What's funny is, they all talk about "toxic masculinity" but if that exists, then toxic femininity should also logically exist, yet they never talk about that.

Good point.

You can't have Heaven without Hell, Good without Bad so if there is Toxic masculinity then there is certainly toxic femininity.

The thing is today in our society a woman that is outspoken, tough as nails, that promotes women even at the expense of males is called a feminist, a hero, the future....



What is really odd in our society is that much of pop culture such as movies, music, TV, video games etc.. celebrate this so called toxic masculinity. How do Professional Sports such as the NFL and NBA fit into this new age world that the SJW Left is pushing on us?



What male doesn't dream of being a superhero, driving a super car, scoring the winning touchdown, being triumphant in battle be it in Middle Earth or the office?



It would be an interesting world if males gave up their so called Toxic ways because the women would take up the fight. Someone has to do it.

[rbohm]

Originally Posted by Phil75230

Care to tell men how castigating males for being weak in mind or spirit or body is going to actually purge those weaknesses from him? Or are you just repeating a long-established-but-wrong cultural meme that says if a man is weak he's worthy of whatever disrespect that comes his way.

as i said, a man has to earn his way through life, no one is going to hand them anything. you want respect? earn it.

More two-cent psychoanalysis conducted from way far away. I'm doing pretty well at work as a store manager, and not particularly fearful of anything. Pleasing others? Why would I want to please people whose values and attitudes are so different from mine? Assertive? No probs in that department too. I'm asserting the right of men to not be pressured to hold in his feelings and express his concerns and worries - in short, be beta without social stigma.

once again what i said went over your head.

[Mr.Retired]

How to distinguished what is real from what is fake?
A good old fashioned clamp down masculine handshake...........