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Old 04-17-2019, 03:04 AM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,133 posts, read 14,195,420 times
Reputation: 15656

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Which part of "Andrew Yang" did you not understand?

Andrew Yang has an agenda, namely, Universal Basic Income.

Andrew Yang's differently twisted distorted reality is designed to make Americans get on their knees begging for Universal Basic Income.
No.
He proposes $1,000 a month to all. That's a figure that could keep a person living, but that's about all it could do. Yang wants to do away with all of welfare's many exemptions, added benefits and limitations. If a poor person is living under his plan, there would be no way to get any more than $1,000 a month.

And under his plan, the rich would get it too, but they would be paying out more in taxes than than that amount. The middle class wage earners would also get it too, and depending on their income level, might not pay any more in taxes than they pay now. The money would come from the lopsided dividend corporate earnings at the topmost level.
Right now, all that money is concentrated in banks. Yang wants to put it back into society and get it moving around where it should be.

What Yang really wants to accomplish is turning capitalism away from being corporate profits first to human profits first.
To make capitalism meet the needs of those who create the capital a first consideration over the stock dividends of the investors. It's lopsided now, but wasn't always.

Yang is an economist, and his plan is designed to put the corporate money back into the hands of the middle class where it once was but no longer is now. 50 years ago, the top corporate officers and the dividends weren't so large as they are now, and the banks weren't so stuffed full of cash.

Our entire capitalist system was revised over time, bit by bit, to make it like this, and it was all done at the middle-class worker's expense.
Yang knows the money won't ever trickle down to the middle class, and he knows America cannot compete with China and the rest of the world until the middle class begins to have more money than it has now.

Yang's intent is to get more Americans educated. There's a time coming when even service jobs like slinging burgers or counter service will be done robotically.
Only education can solve all the societal problems robotic production is creating in our economy, as Yang sees it, and he acknowledges that there are some workers who can never compete again in our present system and will have to rely on welfare for the rest of their lives.

What he wants to do is remove the need for all of us to compete against the machines to hold down a job.
And he wants every job to pay a living wage through the capitalist system we have. He neither wants to grow capitalism nor shrink it, as is done in a socialist society. He doesn't think socialism will ever work in America like it does in Europe.

The UIB is a way of cutting down welfare and welfare's complicated tangles. If it happens, our welfare costs will actually go down while more cash will flow into the capitalist system. All the working folks who aren't on welfare will have more cash on hand to pay for expenses or for savings.

But none of the money will come out of the Treasury as a source. It will all come out of our capitalism, and the dividends from greater savings, along with some higher taxes in the high economic sectors, will flow back to the Treasury.

Yang expects the deficits that now exist would gradually be eliminated entirely by his plan. As it is now, our tax money is being increasingly spent in paying off interest on those deficits, and the money is going off to China and other nations that have purchased our bonds. He wants that to end and the money to stay right here instead.

He doesn't want Americans on their knees begging for money. He wants them on their feet working, using their brains instead of needing to rely on their backs.
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:30 AM
 
29,528 posts, read 16,280,774 times
Reputation: 13702
Baloney. Soon after its implementation we will soon be hearing how a $1000 a month simply isn't enough for certain disadvantaged groups and more welfare will be needed.
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Old 04-17-2019, 05:50 AM
 
18,661 posts, read 12,075,485 times
Reputation: 10146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
It's not semi-literate peasants who are taking your jobs, people. It's machines, owned and operated by the billionaires you idolize. The "job creators," I think you've been trained to call them.

You're at war, Americans. You're in the middle of a full-scale class war, and most of you aren't smart enough to understand it. And you will lose, because you're not even smart enough to understand who the enemy is.




https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/14/opini...ang/index.html


Indeed-


I anticipate that in the future there may be legislation that mandates a certain percentage of manufactured products be performed by humans.


We are on a trajectory to eliminate manual manufacturing jobs, and many service jobs. I wear handmade shoes and my suits are made by a tailor. Are they better? Yes, but probably not enough to warrant the increased cost, but it makes me feel better.


With no incomes to buy products, why make products or perform services anymore? It is an interesting problem.


When faced with "insurmountable" problems, there always seems to be a "breakthrough" that changes the entire direction of an economy and industry that "saves the day". Perhaps that will happen with our automation problem.
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Old 04-17-2019, 08:12 AM
 
9,948 posts, read 6,830,601 times
Reputation: 4214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. In-Between View Post
It's not semi-literate peasants who are taking your jobs, people. It's machines, owned and operated by the billionaires you idolize. The "job creators," I think you've been trained to call them.

You're at war, Americans. You're in the middle of a full-scale class war, and most of you aren't smart enough to understand it. And you will lose, because you're not even smart enough to understand who the enemy is.




https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/14/opini...ang/index.html



The problem in the West is how to deal with the phenomenon of increasing longevity and decreasing fertility of the native populations. This, without immigration or automation, would essentially lead to the collapsing of most western economies and nations due to retirement programs becoming untenable. However, theoretically, there should actually be a surplus of jobs due to a steady decline in the labor pool relative to preexisting demands for labor. As people retire from jobs...that should theoretically create a job opening, but if the labor force is too small, the job will go unfilled.



Thus, in historically robust western economies with low rates of fertility and increasing aging populations, they NEED immigration to keep their pension/retirement system afloat. The problem with employment, under such a scenario, should be structural in nature, meaning that skill sets don't match the kind of jobs in demand, however, aggregate demand should outpace the aggregate supply of labor overall, in a typical non recessionary economy.



The big issue for the future is not total demand for jobs, but skill sets not matching job opening in the labor supply pool. Automation will result in the loss of many jobs that do not require a lot of skill and the remaining jobs not impacted by automation will require a certain level of skill and or education that many people do not have and this society has not figured out how to educate the masses to the skills that are in demand or will be in demand, resulting in high levels of structural unemployment.


When AI becomes recursive....meaning that AI can give BIRTH to AI....then its game over.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,612 posts, read 14,106,334 times
Reputation: 15767
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
No.
He proposes $1,000 a month to all.
That is Universal Basic Income.

Thanks for proving my point.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,351 posts, read 19,978,637 times
Reputation: 8302
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjomike View Post
Yang has the plan.

Robotics aren't the enemy. They are a fact of life. The time of humans as production machines is nearly at an end. Mass production's days were always headed in this direction from the very first.


I make a good living maintaining automated systems.

Lots of other people do as well.

In fact, the greatest problem he have at my shop is keeping knowledgeable employees.

They get picked-off by competitors all the time.

The issue we have with automation is that it is located in the People's Republic of China.

We allow anyone to sell their products here whether they buy our products or not.

Moreover, when an American graduates from college with a degree in engineering, programming, AI, etc., he/she must compete with people that went to school in India, aren't Americans and help big tech corporations like Apple, Intel and Microsoft drive prevailing wages down.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,444 posts, read 5,424,389 times
Reputation: 5255
Whether it’s from climate change or AI, I’d say that humanity has about 100 years left before we go extinct.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:37 PM
 
11,265 posts, read 5,901,203 times
Reputation: 3527
The prediction of the automation apocalypse reminds me much of the Y2K apocalypse. Lots of theories and philosophical debate that will likely go down as nothing but hot air and unrealized doom and gloom.
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,133 posts, read 14,195,420 times
Reputation: 15656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Baloney. Soon after its implementation we will soon be hearing how a $1000 a month simply isn't enough for certain disadvantaged groups and more welfare will be needed.
Maybe. There are always some folks who are never satisfied with what they get. And there are folks who always doubt anything new will work.

There are folks who always want things to stay just the same, and folks who always want to change something that's working just fine, too.
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Old 04-17-2019, 03:33 PM
 
10,636 posts, read 6,019,266 times
Reputation: 5612
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Our labor force is going to be replaced. Incredibly capable AI is a lot closer then you imagine.
Yep. It's right around the corner. The technology behind AI and ML is growing exponentially, and the world is going to look much different in 10-15 years. Basic Income is going to become a necessity in order for people to survive when they are no longer able to work for a living.

The average person has no idea what AI and ML are going to be capable of in the near future. They tend to think only the assembly line and service workers will be affected, but doctors, lawyers and other white collar jobs will be obsolete as well, or at least the number of workers in those fields will be vastly reduced, because bots will be able to do those jobs better and faster than humans.

AI can access millions upon millions of medical records and journals and publications from around the world in a matter of seconds to diagnose an illness or condition, something it would take a human doctor weeks to replicate. We already have bots doing surgery. We are only at the beginning of what they will be doing in the near future.

This new world is on the horizon. We need to start preparing now for the changing world that's coming at us at breakneck speed, so we are able to handle it when it hits the tipping point.
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