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Old 04-15-2019, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
11,546 posts, read 8,098,565 times
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All this talk of racism, victims and blame is ridiculous when all we need to do is look at how Politics is playing out today.



The Dems are for reparations. They want to apologize for something that they did not have anything to do with. Their white guilt is such that they are willing to make a payout that will somehow finally make America atone for something that happened 150 years ago. They somehow see Black people as perpetual victims of the White man and reparations will amend all of that and allow Black people to stand tall in America ?

The Dems are constantly shoveling money into welfare programs to try and buy minority groups a place at the American table. They are all victims in the eyes of the Dems that have suffered one way or another in the White mans world.



The Dems are all for saving the perpetual victims and now they have turned their attention to the "migrants" at the border.

The Dems have big hearts but its beating robs their brains of oxygen.



On the flip side we have Trump and what is his message? It is the supposed racist, hateful rallying cry of the Nationalists MAGA! but no where have I seen where MAGA excludes any American or Legal immigrant.



There is an old saying, you can give a man a fish and he will eat that day or you can teach a man to fish and he will eat everyday. In politics which party is giving the "victims" the fish and which are daring them to stand on their own and go fishing?
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:00 AM
 
9,915 posts, read 6,826,104 times
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Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Dude.... I seen some convoluted logic in my time but this is really off kilter. Voting, by definition, is empowerment and voting against the ruling party is rebellion in its most benign form. If you vote you are displaying power and your belief that you can indeed change things bigger than yourself. In other words, the very opposite of being a victim.

Saying someone should rise above an “external ism” is acknowledgement that the the “ism” exists. It is not being a victim that is at issue, it is allowing that which victimized you to define you, which often leads to being unable to shield oneself from its crippling impact. You can be a victim without being enslaved by your victimhood - you can instead use it for growth and to nurture an inner power instead. We used to celebrate people who did that and encourage people to find their inner strength. Now we encourage people to wallow in their victimhood. We now celebrate victims instead of victors - not a good thing for our nation - and Democrats are leading that parade along this sure road to mediocrity and helplessness.

I agree with some of what you said. For example, I look back at the oppression of my ancestors as a motivating factor to do the best I can in life and to achieve as much as they desired to achieve, but were held back from. One of the first things that I did, once I could afford it, was to bring may ancestors genes back to Africa, after finishing college and getting a job with good earnings. Yet, people see my looking back as a "victim mentality".



The thing about it is this. Every effect has a cause. People don't want to know about the causes that have effected the black condition of today, because its points a finger at a group that does not want to be called out and do not want to own up to their role and who are emotionally vested in a belief that blacks have only been impacted by their "nature". Thus, the labeling of blacks as having a victim mentality is done to deflect from the truth that causes do produce effects. Yet, paradoxically, the conservative will then argue that what has victimized blacks is not racism, but liberalism. In other words, you tell black people that they see themselves as victims and that is there problem.....then you tell them that they are the victims of liberalism. How can we not have been victims of racism, with no ill impact, but can be victims of liberalism with ill impact?
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:00 AM
Status: "i only think with my feels" (set 15 days ago)
 
603 posts, read 106,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Dude.... I seen some convoluted logic in my time but this is really off kilter. Voting, by definition, is empowerment and voting against the ruling party is rebellion in its most benign form. If you vote you are displaying power and your belief that you can indeed change things bigger than yourself. In other words, the very opposite of being a victim.

Saying someone should rise above an “external ism” is acknowledgement that the the “ism” exists. It is not being a victim that is at issue, it is allowing that which victimized you to define you, which often leads to being unable to shield oneself from its crippling impact. You can be a victim without being enslaved by your victimhood - you can instead use it for growth and to nurture an inner power instead. We used to celebrate people who did that and encourage people to find their inner strength. Now we encourage people to wallow in their victimhood. We now celebrate victims instead of victors - not a good thing for our nation - and Democrats are leading that parade along this sure road to mediocrity and helplessness.
well said
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:07 AM
Status: "i only think with my feels" (set 15 days ago)
 
603 posts, read 106,336 times
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I agree with some of what you said. For example, I look back at the oppression of my ancestors as a motivating factor to do the best I can in life and to achieve as much as they desired to achieve, but were held back from. One of the first things that I did, once I could afford it, was to bring may ancestors genes back to Africa, after finishing college and getting a job with good earnings. Yet, people see my looking back as a "victim mentality".



The thing about it is this. Every effect has a cause. People don't want to know about the causes that have effected the black condition of today, because its points a finger at a group that does not want to be called out and do not want to own up to their role and who are emotionally vested in a belief that blacks have only been impacted by their "nature". Thus, the labeling of blacks as having a victim mentality is done to deflect from the truth that causes do produce effects. Yet, paradoxically, the conservative will then argue that what has victimized blacks is not racism, but liberalism. In other words, you tell black people that they see themselves as victims and that is there problem.....then you tell them that they are the victims of liberalism. How can we not have been victims of racism, with no ill impact, but can be victims of liberalism with ill impact?
1. Read old hag's post again. No one says black people haven't historically been a victim of racism. But wallowing in it does no good.
2. You are only victims of liberalism because you keep voting for it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:23 AM
 
18,640 posts, read 12,068,449 times
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Originally Posted by Pogue Mahone View Post
I wake up every morning and have a glass of milk and an english muffin.


You probably now suffer from breakfast PTSD and need reparations from Kellog's.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:26 AM
 
9,915 posts, read 6,826,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_N_1962 View Post
1. Read old hag's post again. No one says black people haven't historically been a victim of racism. But wallowing in it does no good.
2. You are only victims of liberalism because you keep voting for it.

1. ) You don't get to define what is "wallowing in it", especially when whites are extra sensitive of their history of racial oppression . Blacks don't wallow in it....they use there history to EXPLAIN today....then you call that the victim mentality. Our history is only used to EXPLAIN...ergo, cause and effect. Conservatives don't like that truth because they want to propagate the idea that people are poor and ill behaved, mostly, due to internal individual flaws....and not some outside boogeyman.



2.) Now you are saying blacks are dumb. Why would we vote for our oppression? Only the dumb would do that.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:37 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,608 posts, read 10,509,823 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post

The thing about it is this. Every effect has a cause. People don't want to know about the causes that have effected the black condition of today, because its points a finger at a group that does not want to be called out and do not want to own up to their role and who are emotionally vested in a belief that blacks have only been impacted by their "nature". Thus, the labeling of blacks as having a victim mentality is done to deflect from the truth that causes do produce effects. Yet, paradoxically, [b]the conservative will then argue that what has victimized blacks is not racism, but liberalism. In other words, you tell black people that they see themselves as victims and that is there problem.....then you tell them that they are the victims of liberalism. How can we not have been victims of racism, with no ill impact, but can be victims of liberalism with ill impact?
Racism exists, racism has always existed, racism will continue to exist - all that changes is who has the power and who is burdened by it.

Here’s the thing, when it comes to the bolded, it’s not an “either/or” situation. Both are true. What matters is what is currently the most damaging to success for those members of the demographic living in our country today. My adult children are all successful, by anyone’s definition, in both their career and personal lives. The only one who does not have a professional job is a stay-at-home mom married to a professional man. There are no out-of-wedlock children, no one has been arrested, no one is addicted to anything. They spend their time at work, church, and with family. This is true of most of their cousins... except one branch. Those cousin have embraced the victim mentality and blame all their problems on discrimination. Do you think my kids didn’t encounter racism or discrimination also? Of course they did, the difference between them and that one set of cousins is how they responded to it. They attributed it to the individual idiot doing it instead of deciding it made them some victim of “the man” and therefore the whole country owed them something. Labeling someone a victim is patronizing and leads to crippling them if they embrace it.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:44 AM
 
4,041 posts, read 785,313 times
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How often one is actually a victim vs. a person doing an action that they brought upon themselves but refuse to acknowledge it depends on the the who/what/where/when/why/how of the situation.
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Old 04-15-2019, 09:55 AM
 
9,915 posts, read 6,826,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Racism exists, racism has always existed, racism will continue to exist - all that changes is who has the power and who is burdened by it.

Here’s the thing, when it comes to the bolded, it’s not an “either/or” situation. Both are true. What matters is what is currently the most damaging to success for those members of the demographic living in our country today. My adult children are all very successful, by anyone’s definition, in both their career and personal lives. The only one who does not have a professional job is a stay-at-home mom married to a professional man. There are no out-of-wedlock children, no one has been arrested, no one is addicted to anything. They spend their time at work, church, and with family. This is true of most of their cousins... except one branch. Those cousin have embraced the victim mentality and blame all their problems on discrimination. Do you think my kids didn’t encounter racism or discrimination also? Of course they did, the difference between them and that one set of cousins is how they responded to it. They attributed it to the individual idiot doing it instead of deciding it made them some victim of “the man” and therefore the whole country owed them something. Labeling someone a victim is patronizing and leads to crippling them if they embrace it.

What is currently the most damaging thing to black people is a mindset and culture that evolved from centuries of racial oppression. Current racism is not the biggest impediment for black people. Rather, the legacy of past racism is and that includes segregated communities and concentrated poverty that incubates and mutates the mindset and culture.



There are some people who are lazy and will blame their situation on whatever deflection seems most plausible. However, its not because they have a victim mentality....it's because they are lazy. Most blacks I know who are over the age of 40 were told that they had to work "twice as hard" to get the same thing as whites. That does not imply that you could not achieve something, but that you could and that you just had to work harder it....and that is what many did. That having been said, some blacks had more to overcome than other blacks. Racism was an individual experience as well as a group experience. I mean, my experience with racism is a lot different than siblings in my own family. I am the darkest and I seem to have experienced a level of racism that my siblings did not, based upon the stories we have shared.



The idea that if some blacks were able to make it then all should have been able to make it assumes 1)...there is no individual difference in our innate abilities....2) there is no difference in our experiences as individuals, both of which are wrong assumptions. People who are gifted will always rise over those who are less gifted....and people have different gifts. It's great that your family has enjoyed success....but its not proof that your family overcame the same exact situations that your extended family succumbed under.


Everyone gets a different "Test" of life. Just because you passed your test and another failed theirs.....does not mean that you would not have failed the test the other life had to take. They probably would have passed YOUR test too, despite having failed theirs. One just cannot know.....but what we assume tells more about us...than them.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-15-2019 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,266 posts, read 1,292,652 times
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
And you wake up each morning in fear of being the victim of liberalism. Thus, you vote to prevent being a victim and or you vote to help oppress.

What you just said is utter nonsense. It equivocates voting conservative as being oppressive while voting liberal is not being oppressive. BOTH sides seek to impose THEIR will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon society. Their values... their will, beliefs, morality and dictates may be of differing flavors, yet they are still statist demands placed upon society when those demands prohibit action or compel action upon an individual who by their action or inaction has not encroached upon another person's rights or property.

Furthermore, you repeatedly categorize conservatives, especially with regard to speaking about blacks, as if all or even most do the nonsense you claim.

I am a converted conservative who is now a Libertarian. I still hold many conservative values near and dear to my heart BUT what I do NOT do is use my vote in an attempt to compel MY will, beliefs, morality and dictates upon society. I've posted several times on CD that I believe a person's will beliefs and morality is something they should impose only upon themselves UNLESS the action or inaction they are trying to prohibit is being done because that action or inaction would encroach upon the rights or property of another.

Morality, one's deeply held belief, is a great thing to have... as long as the person who has that morality only seeks to impose that value, that personal belief and choice, upon themselves.

You are making a pathetic attempt to sound as if your position is from a moral high ground, which is nothing but subjective nonsense. Most liberal positions as well as most conservative positions are merely subjective statist demands they seek to impose upon everyone else. There is NO moral high ground. There cannot be a moral position unless it is based upon the encroachment upon the rights or property of another because morality is subjective. PERIOD.
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