U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 04-15-2019, 08:50 PM
 
Location: SGV
24,760 posts, read 9,643,702 times
Reputation: 9715

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
Isn’t our country too big now for such a change? Im assuming the only thing that can allow it is a total collapse and division.
I wouldn't look at it that way.

I would look at it as "What is moral and logical? What/where does natural law start an individual at?"

If a man is born free in that he owns his mind, body, and the fruits of his labor...and furthermore the only way to alter these conditions in any way is by legitimate consent how does one proceed?

So if you believe in the validity of the premise I just laid out does statism hold water? Does the Social Contract hold water?

I say "no" but I'm open to hearing a case for the moral and logical consistency of statism/the Social Contract.

 
Old 04-15-2019, 08:58 PM
 
1,605 posts, read 409,721 times
Reputation: 1966
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
That's what agorism and counter-economics are for.

Oh, and nice job justifying U.S. war crimes.

///Thread
Never going to happen. Like I said, you live in a fantasy world. This includes your statement about war crimes.
 
Old 04-15-2019, 09:01 PM
 
19,357 posts, read 17,472,378 times
Reputation: 10573
Every year I repeat two things. One is my favorite line from the Nicholas cage movie " Raising Arizona.": "The government do take a bite, don't she?" Ironic given that cage went bankrupt and has tax problems. That and " Only little people pay taxes" which is what Leona Helmsley said right before they went after her for tax evasion. She was dead on the money, though, but its just that she wasn't big enough. The uber rich, the top 1% of the 1%, they and the world banks and multinational conglomerate corporations don't pay taxes.
Personally, my refund is about as much as last years. But I'm one of the little guys that pays in and gets nothing back.
Go ahead and have free college tuition. I'll be right there signing up to get a free college degree I'll never use. Hell, I'll get my master's by the time I'm retired and get my PHD for free while collecting social security. Why shouldn't I park my kiester in a classroom seat and why should some kid or illegal get all the freebies?
 
Old 04-15-2019, 09:26 PM
 
Location: CA
4,255 posts, read 1,836,112 times
Reputation: 5474
And of course, one of your votes was stolen from you as CD demands I give it to a less reputation-privileged member.
 
Old 04-15-2019, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,313 posts, read 1,316,701 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I wouldn't look at it that way.

I would look at it as "What is moral and logical? What/where does natural law start an individual at?"

If a man is born free in that he owns his mind, body, and the fruits of his labor...and furthermore the only way to alter these conditions in any way is by legitimate consent how does one proceed?

So if you believe in the validity of the premise I just laid out does statism hold water? Does the Social Contract hold water?

I say "no" but I'm open to hearing a case for the moral and logical consistency of statism/the Social Contract.



I look forward to the response... but expect cognitive dissonance to cause a big serving of McNothingburger to be slung in your direction. We'll see what happens.
 
Old 04-15-2019, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,885 posts, read 2,734,706 times
Reputation: 7102
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
"Muh roads!"

Statist bingo in one post.

-Private security > trigger-happy cops
-75% of all firefighters are volunteer. Plus private firefighting is a growing industry.
-Roads should be privately-owned. And income taxes don't pay for roads.
-Government schools should be abolished. And income taxes don't pay for schools.

Notice how you don't mention things like a worldwide military empire, funding the Yemen genocide, and enabling a domestic police state (Homeland Security, TSA, NSA, etc.).

It costs $2500 to renounce, which is far and away the highest exit fee in the world. Why should it cost $2500 to renounce?
Because you are miserable paying taxes? Yet you claim to love America and continue to pay taxes !
So which is it?

masochism: gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions.

 
Old 04-16-2019, 05:14 AM
 
29,704 posts, read 16,419,464 times
Reputation: 13797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Because you are miserable paying taxes? Yet you claim to love America and continue to pay taxes !
So which is it?

masochism: gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions.

Says a poster who gladly accepts their own victimization.

And you dont pay taxes, they are coerced.
 
Old 04-16-2019, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
26,715 posts, read 11,205,600 times
Reputation: 6145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdreamz View Post
Because you are miserable paying taxes? Yet you claim to love America and continue to pay taxes !
So which is it?

masochism: gratification gained from pain, deprivation, degradation, etc., inflicted or imposed on oneself, either as a result of one's own actions.

Because you can't fight injustice in jail.

stupid: having or showing a great lack of intelligence or common sense.

 
Old 04-16-2019, 10:59 AM
 
4,946 posts, read 2,967,374 times
Reputation: 3128
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
I wouldn't look at it that way.

I would look at it as "What is moral and logical? What/where does natural law start an individual at?"

If a man is born free in that he owns his mind, body, and the fruits of his labor...and furthermore the only way to alter these conditions in any way is by legitimate consent how does one proceed?

So if you believe in the validity of the premise I just laid out does statism hold water? Does the Social Contract hold water?

I say "no" but I'm open to hearing a case for the moral and logical consistency of statism/the Social Contract.
I agree that we should own our own bodies, fruits of our labor, etc.
I guess my bias comes from seeing as everything in this society was accomplished by making a sacrifice of that freedom. And I know ehat you’ll say, its a slippery slope and it’s akin to a nation giving up freedom for security etc.
Maybe your right, there is no moral ground. But based on what has been accomplished by humanity, it has worked.

So Im not gonna downplay what your saying. Maybe a free market anarchy society could work. Like an alternate universe where the United “States” went that route instead. Would we be as advanced? So I got no proof to say your wrong.

BTW, stumbled upon this. Pretty funny/interesting

https://youtu.be/FqKz1ibLYgk
 
Old 04-20-2019, 04:01 AM
 
Location: SGV
24,760 posts, read 9,643,702 times
Reputation: 9715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
I agree that we should own our own bodies, fruits of our labor, etc.
I guess my bias comes from seeing as everything in this society was accomplished by making a sacrifice of that freedom. And I know ehat you’ll say, its a slippery slope and it’s akin to a nation giving up freedom for security etc.
Maybe your right, there is no moral ground. But based on what has been accomplished by humanity, it has worked.

So Im not gonna downplay what your saying. Maybe a free market anarchy society could work. Like an alternate universe where the United “States” went that route instead. Would we be as advanced? So I got no proof to say your wrong.

BTW, stumbled upon this. Pretty funny/interesting

https://youtu.be/FqKz1ibLYgk
It isn't a matter of being "right" or "wrong" though.

Again, it's a matter of what is. And what is is what my premise lays out.

You're looking at the ends and making a personal judgement saying that since you feel things are at least "pretty good" the means are justified.

Well, there's no way to morally and logically apply that across the board with even a minuscule amount of consistency.

If so, it would be a principle. And a principle, upheld by consistency, is law. Here is how we arrive at Natural Law. I'm not above it. You're not above. Trump isn't above it. Hillary isn't above it.

Compare that to man made law (the Social Contract) and certain people (Trump and Hillary) are suddenly above the law. It's arbitrary, inconsistent, places the means above the ends, and for the unfortunate ones not ordained to be above this law they have less rights than the chosen ones.

When one person has more rights than another the latter is a slave to the former. There's no way around that.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top