Barr Releases the Mueller Report to Congress and the American People (interview, legal)

[Hellion1999]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

Even his powers are not unlimited, he was blocked by many individuals and he has no power over those living in foreign countries. Reading through the report he had no power over those that deleted emails or other messages and Trump responses were insufficient and he chose not to subpoena him.

That’s not a goal post, if you can read through his report there we’re certainly some grey areas as far as conspiracy not to mention obstruction. Barr’s comment that there was unprecedented cooperation from the White House is laughable.

More than just the emails, sharing internal polling data, Kushner meeting with a Russian banker formerly KGB, Trump Tower meeting all perfectly normal right.

1)Mueller knows his indictments on Russians will never see the light of day in an American court. Those Russians would never get a fair trial here. It was more of a symbolic indictments for Mueller so he can say he indicted people for the Russian collusion and he got something.


2) Why would he subpoena Trump? for doing his constitutional duties? that would set a bad precedent for future Presidents and Mueller would lose in court. That's why he backed off.


3) Why would Mueller want to investigate Trump for obstruction? Mueller was given unlimited powers and unlimited money and unlimited access to WH documents and even Trump's WH counselors without invoking Executive Privilege.

4) Now Mueller will go to Congress and that will be his chance to back up his double talk of obstruction.
He has to say that Trump's actions prevented him of getting crucial evidence or witnesses that he couldn't complete his investigation.....he won't.

5) Barr has no problem going to the Hill and back up his decisions and the law. Mueller is the one I should be worry about because he will disappoint your side again.

[Blondy]

Originally Posted by loves2read

We all know the energy, money, and emotions spent trying to prove HRC was directly responsible for Benghazi...
If there had been a hint of her involvement with any foreign entities in that raid like there are obvious meetings and involvement with Russian operatives as the Trump people were in the campaign and afterward—Mueller’s investigation would be the Holy Grail to the GOP....

Muller’s report says specifically—-
when substantial, credible evidence enabled the Office to reach a conclusion with confidence, the report states that the investigation established that certain actions or events occurred. A statement that the investigation did not establish particular facts does not mean there was no evidence of those facts.

Only that the evidence was not sufficient to satisfy a court of law...when the report was PROVIDED...I really don’t like to say “concluded” because Mueller would still be investigating and wouldn’t have provided a premature version of his conclusion IF he had been allowed to pursue avenues he was still investigating as early as last month...

There are 12 ongoing investigations — that likely means more than 12 indictments are likely to come since Mueller ONLY handed off investigations to offices if there was documentation of a crime with credible evidence obtained to convict those involved...

There is a redacted passage in the Report after Mueller says he considered calling Trump via subpoena to testify and knew he would refuse...
Speculation is that the redacted Grand Jury information points to the Grand Jury WANTING to call Trump to testify—-
And Mueller didn’t feel that was possible under the current DoJ guidelines

There is strong likelihood Trump’s three oldest children will be indicted under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act based on information around redacted passages...and the counter-intelligence investigations that Andrew McCabe had created that are going to be the focus of the House Intelligence Committee under Schiff...

Now the Congressional Committees are likely going to get to see the redacted portions of the Report—even if they have to take Barr to Court...
And those sections could be very important in making a decision to bring articles of Impeachment

Oh please, if Mueller's primary investigation resulted in nothing, there is no reason to believe his spin off investigations will result in anything.

Speculation? You are like a one person smear campaign...…….check with the DNC...…….they will probably hire and pay you to post this nonsense...…...or maybe they already are.

[WannaliveinGreenville]

Hillary definitely put her dirty claws in this back then, stirring the pot....because she was angry she LOST and had to convince her liberal minions of it... but the entire world knows she was a HORRIBLE person. Nobody wanted her anymore. That is why she lost.

[LGR_NYR]

Originally Posted by KayAnn246

Thank Russia and Putin! They are happier because of it.

They don't seem happy.

[LGR_NYR]

Originally Posted by tillman7

Just a friendly reminder. Donald Trump has cost taxpayers $73 Million to play golf 123 Days (23% of his days in Office); but he told Veterans on Monday there would be MORE CUTS to VA programs to save the nation money.

$73 million for "golf" almost a billion dollars paid to this country in tariffs put in place by Trump, not to mention countless billions pumped into an economy due to the lowest unemployment rate EVER and highest living wage earnings since the 50's. I'll caddy for Trump and waive my fee if this keeps up. If this man needs to golf on a daily basis to get his work done someone better call the White House landscapers and have them turn the lawn into a back 9.
MAGA!

[LGR_NYR]

Originally Posted by Ariadne22

Oh, the skewing and misrepresentation on FOX is off the charts. Barr intentionally lied about and misrepresented the Mueller Report both in his 3/24 letter and Thursday's press conference. But, one FOX commentator today in an "observing way" states Barr was the first to get the report and then comment on it and then release it with additional comments at his press conference - and, now, the Democrats are "shooting the messenger." The lies never stop on that channel. And, Mike Wallace did nothing to complete the picture on that comment. Just let it out there - "the Democrats are shooting the messenger." Well, yes, I suppose they would when the messenger is a liar.

All Barr did was deliver the message that Muller sent

No new indictments
No evidence of Collusion
Not enough evidence to warrant an obstruction charge.

I can't wait until Muller testifies to the Senate and Congress. The Dems will try to make him look stupid similar to how they treated Barr and he will smack them and their delusions down. Then, the Republicans get to ask him questions that Democrats don't want to be asked.

[illtaketwoplease]

Originally Posted by Goodnight

There were plenty of meetings with Russia, call it collusion or call it a meeting but in the end Mueller could not prove that there was a return on those meetings. There were plenty of lies along the way, deleted and encrypted emails and he was blocked from accessing foreign individuals. Remember all the public claims that they never met with any Russians.


So yes there isn't enough proof for a conspiracy by the Trump campaign but there is certainly evidence that they tried.

wrong.

[Ariadne22]

Originally Posted by loves2read

And no one who is backing Trump is admitting that the DOJ guideline about not prosecuting a sitting POTUS was an Iron Curtain that Mueller was forced to work behind...
Knowing that legally he was hampered by that provision and Barr was not about to rescind it to facilitate charging Trump just escapes all pro-Trump surrogates and is never mentioned...
If Barr had taken action to cancel that OLC pronouncement (not a law in any way), then Mueller would have had a totally different playing field...

Yet, Barr's statement in his press conference that in face-to-face conversations and upon repeated query by Barr to Mueller, Mueller stated the OLC Memo did NOT prevent him from reaching a conclusion flies in the face of what is actually in the Mueller Report, to wit:

Given the role of the Special Counsel as an attorney in the Department of Justice and the framework of the Special Counsel regulations, see 28 U.S.C. § 515; 28 C.F.R. § 600.7(a), this Office accepted OLC's legal conclusion for the purpose of exercising prosecutorial jurisdiction. And apart from OLC's constitutional view, we recognized that a federal criminal accusation against a sitting President would place burdens on the President's capacity to govern and potentially preempt constitutional processes for addressing presidential misconduct.

Mueller Report, Vol. II, p. 1

Either (1) Mueller hadn't read his own report, (2) Mueller lied to Barr when they met, or (3) Barr is lying about what Mueller said.

I'm going with (3) - "BARR IS LYING."

Originally Posted by hellion

So now the new goal post is that "they tried"?

Not new and never was new. It IS and has always been "tried." All that is needed is that "he tried." The operative word is ENDEAVOR. Per Mueller:

The omnibus clause of 18 U.S.C. § 1503 prohibits an "endeavor" to obstruct justice, which sweeps more broadly than Section 1512's attempt provision. See United States v. Sampson, 898 F.3d 287,302 (2d Cir. 2018); United States v. Leisure, 844 F.2d 1347, 1366-1367 (8th Cir. 1988) ( collecting cases).

"It is well established that a[ n] [obstruction-of-justice] offense is complete when one corruptly endeavors to obstruct or impede the due administration of justice; the prosecution need not prove that the due administration of justice was actually obstructed or impeded."

United States v. Davis, 854 F .3d 127 6, 1292 (11th Cir. 2017) (internal quotation marks omitted).

Mueller Report, Vol. II, p. 11.

Trump is guilty of obstruction just by ENDEAVORING (instructing another) to fire Mueller.

Originally Posted by loves2read

I was sorry the press was hounding him outside church today
They should know he isn’t going to give any comment

APPALLING. They just ran that awful clip again. Today is Easter Sunday. This guy ambushed Mueller approaching his car after Easter Sunday Services. Inappropriate, wrong, bad taste, terrible, awful, bad form, you name it. He should be fired.

Unfortunately, MSNBC continues to run this clip as a lead into their political discussion shows today - and in the process, imo, look very tabloid TV - diminishing its most credible legal analysts who generally provide reasoned commentary.

Originally Posted by Goodnight

So yes there isn't enough proof for a conspiracy by the Trump campaign but there is certainly evidence that they tried.

Over 100 contacts including meetings, phone calls, and correspondence. That's not enough for coordination/conspiracy? Trump campaign was COMPLICIT in Russian interference even though its behavior may not have met Mueller's definition of coordination which is:

We understood coordination to require an agreement - tacit or express - between the Trump Campaign and the Russian government on election interference. That requires more than the two parties taking actions that were informed by or responsive to the other's actions or interests.

We applied the term coordination in that sense when stating in the report that the investigation did not establish that the Trump Campaign coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

Mueller Report, Intro. Vol. 1, p. 2.

Not quite sure what "tacit or express" means, here. I've gotta admit - this appears to me to be a distinction without a difference.

• Trump Campaign KNEW about Russian interference,
• it took meetings on this issue because it had been told Russians had dirt on Hillary,
• it was told ahead of time about the Wikileaks dump,
  
• campaign emissaries met with Russians, passing on polling data, developing favorable actions towards Russia if elected.
• Trump publicly called on Russians to hack Hillary's emails
• Four hours later Russian (unsuccessful) attacks on her servers occurred

What are all these behaviors if not agreement tacit AND express??

[Blondy]

Originally Posted by Ariadne22

Yet, Barr says in his press conference that in conversations and upon repeated query by Barr to Mueller, Mueller stated the OLC Memo did NOT prevent him from reaching a conclusion flies in the face of what is actually in the Mueller Report, to wit:Either (1) Mueller hadn't read his own report, (2) Mueller lied to Barr when they met, or (3) Barr is lying about what Mueller said.

I'm going with (3) - "BARR IS LYING."

Yes, indeed. It IS. All that is needed is that "he tried." The operative word is ENDEAVOR. Per Mueller:Trump is guilty of obstruction just by ENDEAVORING (instructing another) to fire Mueller.


APPALLING. They just ran that awful clip again. Today is Easter Sunday. This guy ambushed Mueller approaching his car after Easter Sunday Services.

Inappropriate, wrong, bad taste, terrible, awful, bad form, you name it. He should be fired.

Unfortunately, MSNBC continues to run this clip as a lead into their political discussion shows today - and in the process, imo, look very tabloid TV - diminishing its most credible legal analysts who generally provide reasoned commentary.

Over 100 contacts including meetings, phone calls, and correspondence. That's not enough for coordination/conspiracy? Trump campaign was COMPLICIT in Russian interference even though its behavior may not have met Mueller's definition of coordination which is:Not quite sure what "tacit or express" means, here. I've gotta admit - this appears to me to be a distinction without a difference.

• Trump Campaign KNEW about Russian interference,
• it took meetings on this issue because it had been told Russians had dirt on Hillary,
• it was told ahead of time about the Wikileaks dump,
  
• campaign emissaries met with Russians, passing on polling data, developing favorable actions towards Russia if elected.
• Trump publicly called on Russians to hack Hillary's emails
• Four hours later Russian (unsuccessful) attacks on her servers occurred

What are all these behaviors if not agreement tacit AND express??

Wow...……….the arrogance to think you know the law better than some of the most qualified attorneys in the country...……..unbelievable really

[Blondy]

Originally Posted by Ariadne22

I
Yes, indeed. It IS. All that is needed is that "he tried." The operative word is ENDEAVOR. Per Mueller:Trump is guilty of obstruction just by ENDEAVORING (instructing another) to fire Mueller.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

Trump could have fired Mueller at any time he wanted to.

He could have stopped the entire investigation.

The whole investigation was under the jurisdiction of the Attorney General and Justice Department which is the Executive Branch under the jurisdiction of the Pres.

He may have incurred a political backlash from the Congress, but he was free to fire the Special Cousel at any time he chose without commiting a criminal offense. You simply don't know what you are talking about.