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Old 04-25-2019, 05:57 PM
 
7,338 posts, read 3,786,163 times
Reputation: 3811

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncguy50 View Post
Funny thing. I was just reading in the another thread about the census how many Canadians are in retirement communities here in the US. I get it. You hate America. But not all Canadians agree with you.

And some come here for the medicine they can't get fast enough within your precious socialized health system.

People walk, WALK, thousands of miles for a chance to gain entry to this country because they know the picture you paint of this country is a postage stamp on a postcard on the moon. It's such a small part of American life and anybody who has been here knows it. And speaking of human rights ... which I think you are referring to allowing unlimited immigration in this country, CANADA is more stringent about who can get to your country than the US.

I wouldn't flip off any presidential motorcade because I have respect for the office. But you on the other hand, I would flip you off right to your face. You don't like America, don't step foot in it. It's just that easy.
Canadians come here because it`s warmer perhaps? Quite a few have retired in Costa Rica where they`ve had universal healthcare sine 1961.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:03 PM
 
23,279 posts, read 12,364,256 times
Reputation: 7383
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncguy50 View Post
Funny thing. I was just reading in the another thread about the census how many Canadians are in retirement communities here in the US. I get it. You hate America. But not all Canadians agree with you.

And some come here for the medicine they can't get fast enough within your precious socialized health system.

People walk, WALK, thousands of miles for a chance to gain entry to this country because they know the picture you paint of this country is a postage stamp on a postcard on the moon. It's such a small part of American life and anybody who has been here knows it. And speaking of human rights ... which I think you are referring to allowing unlimited immigration in this country, CANADA is more stringent about who can get to your country than the US.

I wouldn't flip off any presidential motorcade because I have respect for the office. But you on the other hand, I would flip you off right to your face. You don't like America, don't step foot in it. It's just that easy.
You aren't doing yourself any service.

Our peers do vacation in Florida -- many have a home there. They go back to Canada to their primary residence. They can afford to do that because they aren't as concerned about health care costs in retirement.

And folks do walk miles to get to the USA -- but the USA is the first decent country they get to.

Many folks continue their journey to Canada

And no Canada is not more stringent about who they 'let in'.

Canada has what is called a ranking system for certain characteristics. Many of those are the same as the USA standard -- the USA just doesn't assign points to it.

Canada is more lenient or accepting of asylum seekers.

And once again -- Canadians don't come to the USA for 'superior' treatment.

They may choose to get heart surgery in Miami in February if they live in a cold weather climate and have money....but that's less about the quality of care and more about the sun.

AND -- provincial health care agencies will use American facilities if those facilities are closer than an available Canadian facility. That's not because it is better -- it is because it is as good and cheaper to send someone over a bridge than miles away.

And folks do get defensive about Canada because so many here in the USA seem to feel the rest of the world lives in squalor compared to the USa. Not so.

USA great country, Canada great country -- lots of great places to live.

Canadians shouldn't be insulted -- you should see how Americans talk about each other and need to trash their lifestyle choices.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:33 PM
 
18,341 posts, read 10,414,903 times
Reputation: 13405
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncguy50 View Post
Nothing you have said has blown me out of the water ... not even close. Tell me, when you are here for six months out of the year, do you use medical services? Do you suffer police brutality? Have you been incarcerated without cause? Do you take selfies with the all the slaves you encounter? Sheesh. You're here because it's a great country and so are the people. What a hypocrite you are listing off a litany of injustices that apparently everyone in the US is still culpable for while enjoying all the US has to offer including warming your frozen Canadian bones.

And I'm not comparing our history to yours, I'm comparing how our foundational documents differ in that we have inalienable rights and you have rights that the government says you can have. That's inferior. Sorry if you don't like it. That's too bad.
Nothing hypocritical at all. I like the country and the people (for the most part) but couldn't shive-a-git for the governmental nonsense. You think any American has contributed to warming my frozen bones? Another one unable to assign something they have no control over to it's proper place as a happenstance they cannot claim ownership of.

The gov't up here has a better record of preserving our rights and freedoms than does the U.S as witnessed by all independent org's measuring individual, economic AND freedoms of the press finding Canada to be heads and shoulders above the U.S. on all scales measurable. https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...e-world-2018-4 Canada number 4 while U.S. is a dismal….58th

How can you have a protected freedom of speech when your press as adjudged by reporters without borders finds it lacking in the U.S. by comparison https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...e-world-2018-4 Canada at 18 with the U.S. again well behind at number 45.

And as both myself, with links you've failed to respond to, and another American poster have pointed out; Canada's charter is better than the U.S. because it enumerates those rights and freedoms that WILL be protected by law instead of simply relying upon them having been awarded by some religious entity and an"appointed" SCOTUS to interpret from time to time as personal partisanship and party loyalty dictates.

I fully expect you will ignore the links provided and once again coming back with the personal nonsense you and at least one other poster on here is NOTED for. That method of deflection is getting old and worn out by the way..you need new material.
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Old 04-25-2019, 06:45 PM
 
18,341 posts, read 10,414,903 times
Reputation: 13405
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
You aren't doing yourself any service.

Our peers do vacation in Florida -- many have a home there. They go back to Canada to their primary residence. They can afford to do that because they aren't as concerned about health care costs in retirement.

And folks do walk miles to get to the USA -- but the USA is the first decent country they get to.

Many folks continue their journey to Canada

And no Canada is not more stringent about who they 'let in'.

Canada has what is called a ranking system for certain characteristics. Many of those are the same as the USA standard -- the USA just doesn't assign points to it.

Canada is more lenient or accepting of asylum seekers.

And once again -- Canadians don't come to the USA for 'superior' treatment.

They may choose to get heart surgery in Miami in February if they live in a cold weather climate and have money....but that's less about the quality of care and more about the sun.

AND -- provincial health care agencies will use American facilities if those facilities are closer than an available Canadian facility. That's not because it is better -- it is because it is as good and cheaper to send someone over a bridge than miles away.

And folks do get defensive about Canada because so many here in the USA seem to feel the rest of the world lives in squalor compared to the USa. Not so.

USA great country, Canada great country -- lots of great places to live.

Canadians shouldn't be insulted -- you should see how Americans talk about each other and need to trash their lifestyle choices.

I can only state that while I was typing another missive you've posted two posts whose content from beginning to end is spot on the money. No one has the perfect system but if history can provide examples of how this can be strived for, the U.S. can lead the way.

The candidates are not doing anything at all to further the cause for affordable healthcare delivery for all Americans by merely parroting what they've seen or read from another country. The U.S. is, as you say, unique in that regard; definitely not a one size fits all' citizenry.
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Old 04-28-2019, 07:42 AM
 
1,320 posts, read 299,790 times
Reputation: 1556
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
I can only state that while I was typing another missive you've posted two posts whose content from beginning to end is spot on the money. No one has the perfect system but if history can provide examples of how this can be strived for, the U.S. can lead the way.

The candidates are not doing anything at all to further the cause for affordable healthcare delivery for all Americans by merely parroting what they've seen or read from another country. The U.S. is, as you say, unique in that regard; definitely not a one size fits all' citizenry.
I am not disparaging Canada nor Canadians. I have nothing against either. And I agree with you, nobody has a perfect system, and if I may add to that, neither the US or Canada have a perfect history.

Moral equivalence is always a temporal argument because if you go back far enough, there's always some horrendous human behavior that reminds us of our nature. On the other side of that coin, there are examples of tremendous goodwill and compassion and generosity from both countries. So it really depends on where your heart is when you're comparing the moral fabric of one society to another.

I will always defend the US from people trying to characterize the "now" by bringing up every blight on our history. I always question the motives of people who take that tact. What are they really trying to say? I also think that characterizing our rights as natural rights, not granted by government, was a stroke of genius and prescient in ensuring some future government could not legislate those rights away.

As far as health care is concerned, maybe it is also like history in that in either a private or a public construct, neither system meets the needs of all the people all the time. Which way the US should go is hotly debated, but no health care argument should devolve into using historical blights as an instrument of policy influence.

Last edited by ncguy50; 04-28-2019 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:18 AM
 
23,279 posts, read 12,364,256 times
Reputation: 7383
When the ACA was adopted, of course there was going to be immediate push back from Republicans. There is no way no how that opposing 'team's/parties in this country would ever acknowledge that the other party might have a good idea.

And yes there are major flaws with ACA. It was a mighty feat to try and fix it all in one Act....so there are mistakes. The Constitution has how many amendments to fix its shortcomings over the years.

Republicans first campagined -- not just Trump-- Republicans first campaigned all completely getting rid of ACA & implied we would go back to the status quo.

When that happened, their constituents SCREAMED at them that many of the constituents did not want the ACA dismantled....they wanted to keep the basic premise of it -- everyone being covered and pre-existing conditions not excluding someone from getting coverage.

That's the part that folks on the right are choosing to gloss over. The problem with continuing to fix the health care system is that the basic premise of the ACA is clearly what the people want. They don't want the old ways. So how do you formulate a plan that will somehow mask that you are still using the bones of the ACA and just fixing its mistakes. If anybody can try and do that it is Trump. He can pretend like nobody that he has a whole new plan (when in fact it is the same plan with minor adjustments).

And I don't understand why folks trying to point out what is wrong with OTHER countries' health care plan is the way to prove the USA shouldn't try to fix theirs.

It screams -- we are incompetent and need not try to prove we are anything but incompetent -- lol.


AND overall survey after survey of all the countries many on the right like to trash, show that the citizens are happy with their existing health care and don't want the American version. It is more and more so that is not the case in the USA. Americans overwhelmingly want a better system...that's why healthcare has been an issue for how many years now?

When I first moved in 1997 it was a major issue and still is.
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Old 04-28-2019, 08:44 AM
 
1,826 posts, read 461,720 times
Reputation: 1645
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmagoo View Post
Canadians come here because it`s warmer perhaps? Quite a few have retired in Costa Rica where they`ve had universal healthcare sine 1961.
As a Canadian from the "Gateway to the North", YES! We move down to the U.S for the weather. Definitely not for the healthcare, in fact, the U.S healthcare system is a big deterrent for Canadian's who want to move to the U.S to retire....which is up to 6 months of the year, but I believe a lot of them buy travelling insurance in case something happens to them while staying in the U.S.
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Old 05-03-2019, 09:21 AM
 
Location: New York Area
15,994 posts, read 6,300,508 times
Reputation: 12437
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
And yes there are major flaws with ACA. It was a mighty feat to try and fix it all in one Act....so there are mistakes. The Constitution has how many amendments to fix its shortcomings over the years.
Not many amendments. There are 27, the first ten of which were enacted essentially contemporaneously with the effectiveness of the Constitution. These are the "Bill of Rights." Three amendments, Amendments 13, 14 and 15 were enacted as the Civil War was ending, to institutionalize the abolition of slavery and the status of freed slaves. Two of the amendments, 18th and 21st, instituted and then repealed Prohibition. That leaves twelve amendments, over a history of 230 years since the inauguration of George Washington in New York City. So really not many amendments as "fixes."
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
When that happened, their constituents SCREAMED at them that many of the constituents did not want the ACA dismantled....they wanted to keep the basic premise of it -- everyone being covered and pre-existing conditions not excluding someone from getting coverage.
No insurance policy can survive inclusion of pre-existing conditions. Otherwise what is the incentive for healthy people to have insurance? And if insurance is required who pays for people who cannot afford $27,000 a year for a family of four? I am actually an extreme leftist politically.
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