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Old 04-19-2019, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
5,971 posts, read 3,458,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
According to the link, 79% of NON-URGENT scans were accomplished during the prescribed time.
I read the data. Iím the one who introduced it here. lol.

28 days for a non-emergency MRI. That seems reasonable to you? Someone with a torn rotator cuff, back problem, etc. is going to wait a full month just to get diagnostic imaging, before treatment can begin.

Thatís not the standard of care that I am used to, so obviously thatís unacceptable to me. Your mileage and experience of course may vary.
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,781 posts, read 34,016,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Bogus information. and to add theres no call to replace and repeal our healthcare system we are happy with it, Americas healthcare system is nothing to be proud of =https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...-worst/563519/
.
It is a bit of a challenge to find unbiased information about the Canadian System, especially from US sources. It seems to range from the masses are dying on the streets due to wait times to the Canadian System being the best thing since sliced bread.

Best I can tell:

Canada does not have a National Healthcare System nor a National Single Payer System. It’s a fee for service system, all handled at the 10 provincial and 3 territorial government levels. The Provence’s/ territories negotiate fees for service with unions/ societies representing doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals.

Most doctors are in private practices or employed by medical practices. Most nurses are employed by private hospitals or medical practices or individual doctors.

There is no such thing as in/ out of network as is the case in the US. Anyone can see any doctor, anywhere in Canada. Some doctors/ medical practices are more in demand than others- no diff than the US.

The Canadian System does not include outpatient medications, dental care, vision care, mobility devices. 65% of the population has supplemental Insurance to help cover what the Canadian System does not. In most cases these plans are offered as an employee benefit. These plans are highly variable as are the portion of the premiums paid by employers.

The Provence’s/ territories provide supplemental plans to low income earners and seniors, based on a sliding scale.

Canada negotiates the price of medications and uses a US benchmark to do so. If ABC med costs $100 in the US, Canada agrees to pay a percentage of $100.

Like the US, hospitals close for a variety of economic reasons. Like the US, access to healthcare becomes more challenging in remote rural areas.

Unlike US Medicare, the Canadian System covers out of country services. Despite this, there is more inbound than outbound medical tourism. ( Note Rand Paul seeking a specialist in Canada).

Medical fraud is a global challenge. Canada is no exception. What one does not see in Canada are the eye-popping cases of $ hundreds of billions of systematic fraud that occurs in the US. It is not likely a CEO who presided over a massive fraud would be paid $ hundreds of millions to resign and then become a multi- term governor and then senator, as happened in the US.

Overweight/ obesity rates are increasing throughout the world. The US has the fattest population in the developed world with 75% of adults being overweight/ obese. Canada’s rate is 64%. The higher the rate, the more likely the population acquires diseases that would otherwise be preventable, Diabetes and complications, Heart Disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some Cancers and joint deterioration.

The population in Canada is 37 million vs 327 million in the US.

There is no such thing as a perfect healthcare system, anywhere.

There is no shortage of anecdotal stories in any system.

There is no evidence of a successful free market healthcare system, anywhere.

If I have mischaracterized the Canadian System, please interject.
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Old 04-19-2019, 06:54 AM
 
651 posts, read 333,211 times
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To answer the OP question, When we lived in Canada, it averaged about $204 a month for the whole family. No issues with access and availability where we lived in SW Ontario.
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Old 04-19-2019, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,781 posts, read 34,016,499 times
Reputation: 15288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
I read the data. Iím the one who introduced it here. lol.

28 days for a non-emergency MRI. That seems reasonable to you? Someone with a torn rotator cuff, back problem, etc. is going to wait a full month just to get diagnostic imaging, before treatment can begin.

Thatís not the standard of care that I am used to, so obviously thatís unacceptable to me. Your mileage and experience of course may vary.
What is defined as urgent vs non urgent is unknown.

There is no question there is plentiful access to an MRI services in densely populated areas of the US. There are at least 20 free standing independent MRI businesses within 10 minutes of my home. With a script, there is virtually no wait at any of these private businesses.

One might think with so much free market competition, the cost of an MRI would be rock bottom. According to this, the average cost of an MRI in the US is $2611. Like most pithy articles on healthcare, it does not get into the weeds. No telling if apples to apples are being compared.

Why Does an MRI Cost So Darn Much? | Money

The cost of healthcare insurance in the US is based on the cost of healthcare in the US. Not possible to reduce premiums unless the cost of healthcare is reduced. Healthcare is rationed everywhere, including the US.
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Old 04-19-2019, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,781 posts, read 34,016,499 times
Reputation: 15288
Quote:
Originally Posted by shokwaverider View Post
To answer the OP question, When we lived in Canada, it averaged about $204 a month for the whole family. No issues with access and availability where we lived in SW Ontario.
I have a group of friends who have lived all over the world due to corporate assignments. One of the favorite topics of conversation is healthcare. Much to my surprise, Canada always comes out on top. Japan is usually characterized as most different. The US is not viewed favorably.

It’s anecdotal, given the very different healthcare needs of these people. None have experienced life threatening healthcare challenges.
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Old 04-19-2019, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
5,971 posts, read 3,458,810 times
Reputation: 8072
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
What is defined as urgent vs non urgent is unknown.

There is no question there is plentiful access to an MRI services in densely populated areas of the US. There are at least 20 free standing independent MRI businesses within 10 minutes of my home. With a script, there is virtually no wait at any of these private businesses.

One might think with so much free market competition, the cost of an MRI would be rock bottom. According to this, the average cost of an MRI in the US is $2611. Like most pithy articles on healthcare, it does not get into the weeds. No telling if apples to apples are being compared.

Why Does an MRI Cost So Darn Much? | Money

The cost of healthcare insurance in the US is based on the cost of healthcare in the US. Not possible to reduce premiums unless the cost of healthcare is reduced. Healthcare is rationed everywhere, including the US.
It’s not just MRI’s, though. The links I produced for each province offers wait times for a large number of procedures. For example: the average wait time to begin oncology treatments is 3.8 weeks. Need your gallbladder removed? Unless you’re an emergency case, it’s going to be a month or two. According to Global News Canada, the waits are getting worse. Only 43% of Canadians are able to get a same-day or next-day appointment with a GP. Twenty percent wait up to seven days. Forty percent of Canadians reported that they visited an emergency room for things their GP could have taken care of if they could have only got an appointment to see them. 56% of Canadians wait over four weeks to see a specialist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globaln...ts-report/amp/

I don’t bring up these issues to make blanket condemnations of Canada’s healthcare delivery. I bring it up because I am literally petrified of America adopting a similar system for our 350 million people and FORCING Americans to become a part of it. I support Medicare for lower income families. I do not support government insistence that the entire nation ban private insurance and be forced to all use the same public system, and pay premiums according to income. We deserve the right to choose what works for us.
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Old 04-19-2019, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Barrington
45,781 posts, read 34,016,499 times
Reputation: 15288
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
Itís not just MRIís, though. The links I produced for each province offers wait times for a large number of procedures. For example: the average wait time to begin oncology treatments is 3.8 weeks. Need your gallbladder removed? Unless youíre an emergency case, itís going to be a month or two. According to Global News Canada, the waits are getting worse. Only 43% of Canadians are able to get a same-day or next-day appointment with a GP. Twenty percent wait up to seven days. Forty percent of Canadians reported that they visited an emergency room for things their GP could have taken care of if they could have only got an appointment to see them. 56% of Canadians wait over four weeks to see a specialist.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/globaln...ts-report/amp/

I donít bring up these issues to make blanket condemnations of Canadaís healthcare delivery. I bring it up because I am literally petrified of America adopting a similar system for our 350 million people and FORCING Americans to become a part of it. I support Medicare for lower income families. I do not support government insistence that the entire nation ban private insurance and be forced to all use the same public system, and pay premiums according to income. We deserve the right to choose what works for us.
My husband has some ongoing healthcare issues.

One of the specialist he sees on an annual basis has a 6 month waiting list for an appointment. He could choose a different, less in demand, Md, and reduce wait time.

He has waited 6-8 weeks for a non- urgent surgery ( thyroid removal) appointment.

He bought into an annual concierge program ( out of pocket) to be able to get an appointment with his primary care physician as opposed to a variable wait time for walk ins for a physicianís assistant.

I have on occasion accompanied people to the ER and spent 8-10 hours with them waiting and waiting and waiting.

All examples are anecdotal, regional and influenced by demand for certain providers.

As I understand it, the Canadian Provenceís negotiate fees for service with hospitals, physicians and medical practices. This is similar to such providers negotiating with a multitude of private insurers in the US, crept that itís limited to the local government in Canada.

It is a curious thing that most folk, regardless of political ideology, seem to agree that healthcare, thus insurance premiums in the US costs too much while simultaneously believing the US has the best healthcare in the world.

One would think the dead bodies were piled mile high in the streets of other countries that have embraced Universal Healthcare, regardless of how itís executed.
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Old 04-19-2019, 10:04 AM
 
18,263 posts, read 10,362,943 times
Reputation: 13320
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
My husband has some ongoing healthcare issues.

One of the specialist he sees on an annual basis has a 6 month waiting list for an appointment. He could choose a different, less in demand, Md, and reduce wait time.

He has waited 6-8 weeks for a non- urgent surgery ( thyroid removal) appointment.

He bought into an annual concierge program ( out of pocket) to be able to get an appointment with his primary care physician as opposed to a variable wait time for walk ins for a physician’s assistant.

I have on occasion accompanied people to the ER and spent 8-10 hours with them waiting and waiting and waiting.

All examples are anecdotal, regional and influenced by demand for certain providers.

As I understand it, the Canadian Provence’s negotiate fees for service with hospitals, physicians and medical practices. This is similar to such providers negotiating with a multitude of private insurers in the US, crept that it’s limited to the local government in Canada.

It is a curious thing that most folk, regardless of political ideology, seem to agree that healthcare, thus insurance premiums in the US costs too much while simultaneously believing the US has the best healthcare in the world.

One would think the dead bodies were piled mile high in the streets of other countries that have embraced Universal Healthcare, regardless of how it’s executed.
You are indeed a voice in the wilderness; but thankfully a growing in numbers one.

Along with your assessment; one would also think that given these anomalies exist, some Americans would temper their comments about other countries wait times, costs, availability etc..:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8623091.html

https://www.newsweek.com/remote-area...th-care-287507

https://www.ramusa.org/

While claiming on the one hand they themselves might enjoy the routine wonderful level of care they've become used to; they go ahead and castigate another country in whole over an issue that a significant segment of their country's population has had to endure for eons.

I don't understand the disconnect that someone seemingly living in the center of the universe of a huge metropolitan area of the U.S. has not bothered to research what millions of their brethren (equal to, or even greater in numbers, than the entire population of Canada) are tolerating as normal in their own country then claiming their country does it better.

Asking THOSE American citizens if they'd deign to accept a system that would finally bring routine pre-emptive medical care to an entire disenfranchised sector of people never having had such a luxury might indeed render an entirely different response than the arrogant "I'd neve accept such a system".
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Old 04-19-2019, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
5,971 posts, read 3,458,810 times
Reputation: 8072
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
You are indeed a voice in the wilderness; but thankfully a growing in numbers one.

Along with your assessment; one would also think that given these anomalies exist, some Americans would temper their comments about other countries wait times, costs, availability etc..:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8623091.html

https://www.newsweek.com/remote-area...th-care-287507

https://www.ramusa.org/

While claiming on the one hand they themselves might enjoy the routine wonderful level of care they've become used to; they go ahead and castigate another country in whole over an issue that a significant segment of their country's population has had to endure for eons.

I don't understand the disconnect that someone seemingly living in the center of the universe of a huge metropolitan area of the U.S. has not bothered to research what millions of their brethren (equal to, or even greater in numbers, than the entire population of Canada) are tolerating as normal in their own country then claiming their country does it better.

Asking THOSE American citizens if they'd deign to accept a system that would finally bring routine pre-emptive medical care to an entire disenfranchised sector of people never having had such a luxury might indeed render an entirely different response than the arrogant "I'd neve accept such a system".
I’ll ignore your self-righteous and smug prose here. It’s so ... you.

The bottom line is that healthcare for many Americans is a product/service that you buy. It’s been this way for a long time. The amount that you pay is commensurate (usually) with the level of care that you receive in return. My family enjoys excellent healthcare because we choose to pay a higher dollar amount for it. That’s our choice. It is our right. Our only desire is the ability to remain within such a private system, and not be required to accept lesser care administrated by a government that can’t even currently care for its veterans with dignity and ease.

I do not understand the cognitive dissonance that would lead one to conclude that it is selfish or wrong to want choice in the matter. Perhaps our penchant for freedom is simply a cultural thing not understood by others.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:00 PM
 
14,190 posts, read 6,419,666 times
Reputation: 14639
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX Wahine View Post
I read the data. Iím the one who introduced it here. lol.

28 days for a non-emergency MRI. That seems reasonable to you? Someone with a torn rotator cuff, back problem, etc. is going to wait a full month just to get diagnostic imaging, before treatment can begin.

Thatís not the standard of care that I am used to, so obviously thatís unacceptable to me. Your mileage and experience of course may vary.
?? Do you ever go see a specialist? Usually they are booked out for at least 2 months anytime I need to go. I just made an appointment at a doc that I won't get in until the end of next month. Happens all the time.
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