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Old 04-19-2019, 09:33 AM
 
5,956 posts, read 2,195,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
I have no issue with people voluntarily contributing toward helping other people.

The problem ensues when the State uses its monopoly on violence to force people to contribute.
If voluntary contribution=need then I would agree completely. Since I don't see people jumping up to pay Nursing Home bills, Cover food cost for their family members on SNAP, Medical bills for the elderly, or Cover housing cost for Family members without housing then the Government will take a role.

The State subsidizes our selfishness and "All about me" isms because our wild spending juices the economy so we don't cover our families obligations, as we Americans do not feel a obligation to do so. Therefore it is a policy of our own doing as society deemed the issue you are concerned with "A non-issue" and government can do it.


After all why help when I can buy a corvette to match my other corvette, or a motorcycle, or a vacation home, or a RV, or a trip to France or...……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. You get the point.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,750 posts, read 3,098,767 times
Reputation: 1746
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl_G View Post
If voluntary contribution=need then I would agree completely. Since I don't see people jumping up to pay Nursing Home bills, Cover food cost for their family members on SNAP, Medical bills for the elderly, or Cover housing cost for Family members without housing then the Government will take a role.


The State subsidizes our selfishness and "All about me" isms because we don't cover our families obligations, as we Americans do not feel a obligation to do so. Therefore it is a policy of our own doing.
People have 1/4-1/3 of their income stolen from them every year. People would be far more likely to voluntarily contribute to charity if that wasn't the case.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:38 AM
 
19,394 posts, read 6,462,072 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
No kidding. I'm appalled by some of these comments. The message seems to be "let's make those among us who have the least suffer in some way for every scrap we throw their way"
Yes, let's make them "suffer" and have to survive without Coke and ring-dings - or 54" flatscreen TVs.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,029,946 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
That is a VERY good point, and I liked your entire post -- good info. (Could not rep you again.)

However, I think the main issue that is generally acknowledged is that poor people are not as healthy as richer people because they cannot afford to be so and/or possibly because they haven't had the education to make better nutritional choices. (When my husband and I went to an almost entirely "all natural foods" diet, our grocery bill doubled.)

I personally would be in favor of having a "junk food" tax placed on many foods and beverages, but I readily admit that this would be VERY difficult to do (as you pointed out) and would almost certainly create a firestorm of protest, not to mention all the lobbying that would take place against it.
Only 20% of the obese people in the US are poor enough to receive SNAP benefits. 41% of the obese have an income of over $86,100 a year. One study done over a decade ago found that women receiving SNAP had a 2%-5% greater chance of becoming obese than did other women, but there was no increase found for men on SNAP and other studies have found no relationship between SNAP and obesity. https://theconversation.com/dont-bla...-america-80725

I agree poor people are not as healthy as the wealthy but you can't attribute that solely to food. A bigger part of that is lack of access to medical care, especially in states that did not expand medicaid.

This like all social problems are far more complex than we want to admit. I would like to see the Federal Government acknowledge how addicting sugar is but it won't happen, I was appalled when they started allowing schools to start serving sugar laden milk beverages again. Kids don't need strawberry milk and that helps no one except the food industry. I have a 7 year old grandson who only rarely is allowed to eat candy, soda or sugary treats and he basically has no interest in them and is more likely to ask for applesauce than a cupcake, but his neighborhood friends eat sweets and sodas constantly (and none as far as I know are SNAP recipients)
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:40 AM
 
5,956 posts, read 2,195,484 times
Reputation: 4599
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
People have 1/4-1/3 of their income stolen from them every year. People would be far more likely to voluntarily contribute to charity if that wasn't the case.

I don't buy that idea in today's society. Just look at Savings rates, average household credit debt, increased sales of Luxury cars, increased home sizes, increased sales in boats and sports-recreational equipment, second / vacation home sales. In other words people choose to do what they want, and no one is choosing to cover those expenses.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Rural Wisconsin
19,601 posts, read 9,139,085 times
Reputation: 37903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl_G View Post
If voluntary contribution=need then I would agree completely. Since I don't see people jumping up to pay Nursing Home bills, Cover food cost for their family members on SNAP, Medical bills for the elderly, or Cover housing cost for Family members without housing then the Government will take a role.

The State subsidizes our selfishness and "All about me" isms because our wild spending juices the economy so we don't cover our families obligations, as we Americans do not feel a obligation to do so. Therefore it is a policy of our own doing as society deemed the issue you are concerned with "A non-issue" and government can do it. .
That is true, but it is a vicious circle, I think. With the amount of taxes and just the cost of basic living expenses, most people cannot afford nursing home bills or to voluntarily help family members in trouble.

I think that government policies need to change regarding taxes and a lot of other issues, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl_G View Post
I don't buy that idea in today's society. Just look at Savings rates, average credit debt, increased sales of Luxury cars, increased home sizes, increased sales in boats and sports-recreational equipment, second home sales. In other words people choose to do what they want, and no one i choosing to cover those expenses.
Also true.

In short, I think that there is plenty of blame to go around.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
42,758 posts, read 26,029,946 times
Reputation: 33870
Quote:
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Lets make those among us who are able bodied but have no morals and free load off hard working people go hungry. People like this should be ashamed of themselves, they obviously have no pride in themselves and they are a load on others who work to pay to put food on their table.
What benefits are able bodied, immoral freeloaders receiving?
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:42 AM
 
19,394 posts, read 6,462,072 times
Reputation: 12310
Quote:
Originally Posted by sickofnyc View Post
Maybe a scarlet letter "R" sewn to each garment worn by the recipient and their children as well... Your outlook is bizarre.
That's not what I said. Nobody would know who the welfare recipients are, but themselves. But nothing wrong with reminding them they're not "entitled" to it - but should rather be grateful that tax-paying Americans help feed their families.

I once had a discussion with a liberal who kept insisting that surviving on government assistance is every bit as respectable a lifestyle as supporting oneself, and that one "lifestyle" is not intrinsically better than the other.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:45 AM
 
3,354 posts, read 1,174,852 times
Reputation: 2278
Quote:
Originally Posted by katharsis View Post
All of this is very true, and I don't disagree with any of that.
Thank you. I can understand quite a bit what people are going through. I've got osteoarthritis and cataracts plus other serious health issues which just happened to be passed down to me. It does also get me a bit bothered though when I think someone is misusing the system, but then it's not up to me to determine someone else's abilities or disabilities.
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Old 04-19-2019, 09:45 AM
 
19,449 posts, read 12,092,063 times
Reputation: 26193
Quote:
Originally Posted by yspobo View Post
With work requirements coupled with the loss of low wage jobs more people who cannot find paid employment will have to work volunteer jobs in order to receive food stamps. Companies will have slave labor again as former minimum wage jobs become volunteer positions. The lower class will be pretty much powerless.

Around here you have to pay for your own background check to volunteer and even if you pass the background check you might still be turned down for a volunteer spot. $20 for a background check is a lot when you have no monetary income.

If someone who is not on disability (it does not matter how physically ill you are, if you do not receive SSI or SSDI then you are considered to be "able bodied" even though employers don't want you) receives food stamps and cannot find paid employment he/she has to work for free in order to have food to eat. Otherwise, you can only get three months of food stamps every three years. And volunteer positions will be in such demand that many will be turned down for those. You cannot volunteer just anywhere. It has to be an approved location. So, if the recipient cannot even be chosen for a volunteer position in those three months he/she will be cut off and left with nothing.

Just like with paid employment the recipient will be left to depend on the decisions of the employer on whether or not the recipient will be chosen to work for free. Food banks vary, but around here you have to show you receive food stamps to get help more than once at a food bank. So, some food banks will refuse to help the unchosen as well.

Minimum/low wage jobs going away is going to hurt a lot of people.
Wow. Dystopian and scary. Most people have no idea about these rules and the obstacles involved.
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