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Old 05-07-2019, 08:14 PM
 
3,895 posts, read 1,188,199 times
Reputation: 3057

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Craig, DeSantis was right on all counts...

We do need immigrants labor....

....and immigrants doing that labor have to be here legally

If they are not here legally.....they are a "illegal" immigrant and have to leave
There are avenues for immigrants to come here legally. Over 1 million do it every year.

What's the problem? You want it dirt cheap, and you only get that illegally. Can't have it both ways. Sorry bub.
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Old 05-07-2019, 08:49 PM
 
15,388 posts, read 13,409,934 times
Reputation: 20871
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Let's not mince words here.

I'm saying he presented the very same - the very ones - that all those corporations, contractors, farms, meat packing plants and developers in Florida and Texas are taking each and every day.

I'm saying that E-Verify didn't exist in any form at the time. I'm saying that the EMPLOYER had all the correct forms and paid all the correct taxes.

I am not saying he gave them legal forms. How would I know? Maybe they were legal but he was only allowed to be here a couple years? I don't know.

NONE of this has anything to do with the issue. I presented it in the OP......

Based on your posting, I'm not sure why Desantis just gave a pass to all Florida Employers and directly told them that the state NEEDED that labor.

If the Government says it's legal...well, it sort of is. That is, unless they make a law for employers to take responsibility, then it's legal...or OK, or regular, or normal....course of business.
Not mincing any words. The employer is illegally employing someone, or that someone is engaged in ID theft, pretty simple.

Yes, we need workers, I need a million dollars, neither need means you get to do things illegally to get it.

This illegal immigrant can get in line like everyone else, he is not special, him being illegal does not make him more special over legal immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
So you're saying that the criminal alien was both taking a job from an American worker, but also pushing down wages for the same job? That's kinda what we've been saying all along.
This is the same poster who makes posts and threads complaining about low wages, lol.
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:08 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
7,698 posts, read 12,262,704 times
Reputation: 4685
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Just an anecdote.....

A very active businessman I know runs various enterprises including massive amounts of commercial real estate, a payroll services and a farm that raises very valuable animals. He injects vast amounts of money into the economy in terms of contractors, services, taxes, etc.

So...today I am talking to him and ask him about one of his "guy fridays" - a fella who seemed to be from C. America somewhere who has worked for him for more than a decade. Turn out guy got a speeding ticket and that was the end - he's not allowed back in this country for a decade.

The young man was single, maybe 35 and had worked for 14 years. He has presented 100% of the proper paperworks to the employer and ALL taxes were paid. His pay was $20 an hour and he also got a place to live, a vehicle and generally treated like a King. As one can imagine, he was a GREAT and honest worker.

Now he is gone. So my friend found a "American" who helps him sometimes....$35 an hour and the worker is about 1/3 as efficient as the immigrant was. That is, in total, the "production" now costs the business dude 5X as much...to get an equiv. task done.

ALL the tax money paid in for the other guy is probably in our kitty.....but any tax money paid in for the new guy is likely to be spent on new guy (who knows? Maybe he will claim he was hurt and claim medicaid, etc. etc.).....

I haven't worked out all the angles, but it sure seems that this is exactly the type of immigrant who should be here on a guest visa or...after 14 years of paying taxes with multiple people to vouch for his work ethic, etc - should have a path to citizenship (he speaks perfect English, etc.).....

I'm sure many will disagree....but even the Govs of states like TX and Fl agree as they have outright said they need the extra labor given the job market.

My friend cannot afford to pay 5X as much (lazy American worker), so he'll shut down the farming operation and sell off some of his real estate.

You'd think Americans from all those poor places would be scrambling to come to Rhode Island here and work hard for north of $20 an hour (unskilled)...plus housing and a car, etc.

But they are not. Many jobs are filled with Irish and Russians through special services that import them as seasonal workers (in resorts, etc.). Still, there is no one to fill the year-round hard working jobs.

You can't find a paint for under $50 an hour.

It's a complicated situation but, IMHO, it shows the folly of the lack of true immigration reform (LAW). We need exactly the type of person we are rejecting. Meanwhile, the REALLY low skill crew in TX and FL (ag workers, roof workers, etc)....they seem too be fairly protected by the respective states.

One wonders why we don't want the "best people"...or, why the forgotten man and woman won't hightail it from the hills and come work hard for nice salaries and benefits??
Maybe up in New England people really do think working class jobs are beneath them. But in a lot of the country, including here in Louisiana and also West Virginia where I previously lived, white and black people do most of the landscapping, roofing, gardening and housekeeping. I've been to the Northeast before and even all the fast food places are filled with illegals working there.
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Old 05-08-2019, 12:23 AM
 
Location: California
30,509 posts, read 33,322,731 times
Reputation: 25977
The best people aren't subject to deportation. Besides, there is no "best" and if you look around you will find others just as good who aren't under threat of deportation.
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Old 05-08-2019, 02:35 AM
 
2,637 posts, read 555,077 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Just an anecdote.....
Thanks for the warning; I didn't have to bother to read the rest.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:14 AM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Of course.

I hope the story is clear.

Undocumented worked working for the same employer for 14 years. He presented all the proper forms 14 years back to the employer and all taxes have been paid.

Speeding ticket....checked out, found not here legally. Sent directly to ICE who told him to leave the country. Did so.

I hope that makes it clear. I thought it was so in the first place.

If he got caught speeding in a sanctuary city...my guess is he'd still be here.

So, the hypocrisy of it all...like in Florida where Desantis says out loud we need them to work...and won't sign E-Verify, BUT signs a bill to say "no sanctuary cities".......

How can he say "We need a million of you really bad so you can stay but if you are stopped for speeding we don't want you"????

That just doesn't make sense.

If Florida and Texas, etc. want to take the view "we are abusing them and we don't want ANY of them" - FINE.....implement E-Verify with strict penalties for employers and then deport them. But that's not the case. They want and need them and they admit it.

It's a half-arsed way of doing business.
That's the problem with your anecdote. "Undocumented," that is ILLEGAL, aliens do not have any "proper forms" that allow them to work in the US unless they've committed identity fraud/theft.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:15 AM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
He did not present the proper forms if he was here illegally, he submitted fakes, forges, ID theft, etc.

Speeding will not get even an illegal deported, unless there are other circumstances like prior criminal record, or it was more than just speeding like reckless driving. Even if so, so what, he is here illegally, he has zero legal right to stay in a country he does not have permission to be in. Being here 1 year, 14 years, or 100 years, does not change this.
Exactly.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:24 AM
 
14,587 posts, read 3,867,544 times
Reputation: 10640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
Maybe up in New England people really do think working class jobs are beneath them. But in a lot of the country, including here in Louisiana and also West Virginia where I previously lived, white and black people do most of the landscapping, roofing, gardening and housekeeping. I've been to the Northeast before and even all the fast food places are filled with illegals working there.
Nice try - since most all my landscapers, contractors and all are polish, french canadian and otherwise "American".

But I'll give you an A for effort.

Do you know a lot of people that harvest tomatoes? Strawberries?

Tom, if this were the case, why does Texas have 2.5 Million (or more!) illegals? Are you saying the border between LA and TX means that Americans are lazy on one side of it?

Maybe you don't mean it that way...in that case, explain Texas. Please.

My take is that LA. is so poor that anyone has to do anything to survive. That's not the USA in general. Since it is so poor there isn't the need for as much outside labor. How else to explain the diff between TX and FL....and LA?

Below from NOLA.com

"Many work in agriculture, construction, labor-intensive work

Roughly 10 percent of workers in Louisiana's agriculture sector are undocumented. Undocumented immigrants also worked in construction (9.1 percent), food services (5.6 percent) and administrative, support and waste management services (9.4 percent), a group that includes janitors, building cleaners and grounds maintenance.

Undocumented immigrants are starting businesses

The report estimates there are about 6,378 undocumented entrepreneurs in Louisiana. That translates to a business startup rate of about 12 percent, twice the rate for American citizens"
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:26 AM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Let's not mince words here.

I'm saying he presented the very same - the very ones - that all those corporations, contractors, farms, meat packing plants and developers in Florida and Texas are taking each and every day.

I'm saying that E-Verify didn't exist in any form at the time. I'm saying that the EMPLOYER had all the correct forms and paid all the correct taxes.
E-verify Admin admits itself it misses 54% of illegal aliens unauthorized to work in the US due to identity fraud/theft. E-verify simply has NO way to detect identity fraud/theft since they do NOT have identifying biometric data on every US citizen adult and child, Green Card holder, and Temporary Visa worker. Your "friend's" illegal alien employee simply gave his employer fraudulent documents, as do millions of other illegal aliens in the US.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:28 AM
 
66,239 posts, read 30,145,317 times
Reputation: 8606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
So you're saying that the criminal alien was both taking a job from an American worker, but also pushing down wages for the same job? That's kinda what we've been saying all along.
Exactly. Don't expect them to understand that, though. They have NO logical/critical thinking skills. This is all about emoting and the "feelz" for them.
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