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Old 05-08-2019, 08:16 AM
 
2,587 posts, read 760,979 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
So you and your kids showed up in the fields on busses and picked blueberries, strawberries and apples for weeks on end...and then moved north or south to another field and did the same?
Craig, at least in Florida, those buses you see are highly regulated....Florida has the Farm Workers Association of Florida (FWAF)....and different farm areas have their own associations under that....like the Coalition of Immokalee Workers (CIW)....it's their unions

..Everyone on those buses are here legally....their unions guarantee pay, time for lunch, bathrooms, working conditions, etc...all of it

The FNGLA...(Florida Nursery, Growers & Landscape Association)...regulates the horticulture industry...and is also in charge of insurance, loans, etc....a nursery working illegals can lose their rights to insurance claims and loans
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:28 AM
 
14,587 posts, read 3,867,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie22 View Post
Craig, at least in Florida, those buses you see are highly regulated....Florida has the Farm Workers Association of Florida (FWAF)....and different farm areas have their own associations under that....like the Coalition of Immokalee Workers (CIW)....it's their unions

..Everyone on those buses are here legally....their unions guarantee pay, time for lunch, bathrooms, working conditions, etc...all of it

The FNGLA...(Florida Nursery, Growers & Landscape Association)...regulates the horticulture industry...and is also in charge of insurance, loans, etc....a nursery working illegals can lose their rights to insurance claims and loans
So, the busses are regulated....but not the PEOPLE......

And, you outright claim that if regular hard working business owners hire people they can lose their rights...BUT, at the same time, DeSantis allows 800K illegals (no E-Verify) to fortify big business with ZERO penalties.

Corrie, tells us something we don't know! The trickle down always showers onto the weak, while the bigwigs (Big Sugar, Big Tourism, Big Construction) get the benefits of their connections with the Swamp.

Try as you may you cannot come up with a valid reason the GOP FL Legislature doesn't do E-Verify immediately- with heavy penalties for employers. Well, actually....you CAN come up with the reason. It's exactly as it seems - they approve of the illegal labor. wink wink.

Heck, the FL Attorney General won't even let - OPTIONALLY - a county enforce E-Verify
"Florida Attorney General Ashley Moody says Brevard County cannot require local businesses to be in compliance with federal immigration laws through the E-Verify program when renewing or applying for a local business tax receipt to operate in the county."

C'mon, Corrie. Say it. Florida wants the illegal labor. You can do it. Solving a problem starts with admitting it. If we can't get past hiding our collective heads in the polluted Florida sands, we can't get anywhere.

Oh, speaking of pollution, despite all the BS the Florida Legislature did about ZERO for the polluted environment.
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Old 05-08-2019, 08:35 AM
 
2,587 posts, read 760,979 times
Reputation: 1487
You know....I wish you would post without all the dramatics....it makes your posts confusing and almost impossible to follow

Did I say anything about E-Verify?....anything about approving illegal labor?.....anything about Florida wanting illegal labor?

...nope, I didn't

I did try to set you straight on some things you had way wrong
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:06 AM
 
2,587 posts, read 760,979 times
Reputation: 1487
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Those who have no/low skill sets should expect to earn little or nothing, as that's the value of their labor.
...and that's the bear in the room

These Illegal immigrants come here with no education, their "skill sets" are the way they did it in a 3rd world country, they speak no English....very little spanish, and spanish is not a universal language...it's different in almost every spanish speaking country...and if they are not Mexican, they speak a clicking mountain indian language...

....these are entry level jobs for them.....they need to be here long enough to learn the way we do it...and at least learn enough english or spanish to communicate...and learn how to flush and use toilet paper

Last edited by Corrie22; 05-08-2019 at 10:08 AM..
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Old 05-08-2019, 09:18 AM
 
676 posts, read 175,030 times
Reputation: 1037
Its the employers fault for not hiring someone eager to work. If the employer wants to be in business they need to have a better process for screening and finding capable workers.
Illegal is illegal, they can work just as hard in their home country to make things better.
The US is a poor example of how to run things, so at least he has that to reflect on.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:35 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,969 posts, read 32,674,900 times
Reputation: 27468
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Just an anecdote.....

A very active businessman I know runs various enterprises including massive amounts of commercial real estate, a payroll services and a farm that raises very valuable animals. He injects vast amounts of money into the economy in terms of contractors, services, taxes, etc.

So...today I am talking to him and ask him about one of his "guy fridays" - a fella who seemed to be from C. America somewhere who has worked for him for more than a decade. Turn out guy got a speeding ticket and that was the end - he's not allowed back in this country for a decade.

The young man was single, maybe 35 and had worked for 14 years. He has presented 100% of the proper paperworks to the employer and ALL taxes were paid. His pay was $20 an hour and he also got a place to live, a vehicle and generally treated like a King. As one can imagine, he was a GREAT and honest worker.

Now he is gone. So my friend found a "American" who helps him sometimes....$35 an hour and the worker is about 1/3 as efficient as the immigrant was. That is, in total, the "production" now costs the business dude 5X as much...to get an equiv. task done.

ALL the tax money paid in for the other guy is probably in our kitty.....but any tax money paid in for the new guy is likely to be spent on new guy (who knows? Maybe he will claim he was hurt and claim medicaid, etc. etc.).....

I haven't worked out all the angles, but it sure seems that this is exactly the type of immigrant who should be here on a guest visa or...after 14 years of paying taxes with multiple people to vouch for his work ethic, etc - should have a path to citizenship (he speaks perfect English, etc.).....

I'm sure many will disagree....but even the Govs of states like TX and Fl agree as they have outright said they need the extra labor given the job market.

My friend cannot afford to pay 5X as much (lazy American worker), so he'll shut down the farming operation and sell off some of his real estate.

You'd think Americans from all those poor places would be scrambling to come to Rhode Island here and work hard for north of $20 an hour (unskilled)...plus housing and a car, etc.

But they are not. Many jobs are filled with Irish and Russians through special services that import them as seasonal workers (in resorts, etc.). Still, there is no one to fill the year-round hard working jobs.

You can't find a paint for under $50 an hour.

It's a complicated situation but, IMHO, it shows the folly of the lack of true immigration reform (LAW). We need exactly the type of person we are rejecting. Meanwhile, the REALLY low skill crew in TX and FL (ag workers, roof workers, etc)....they seem too be fairly protected by the respective states.

One wonders why we don't want the "best people"...or, why the forgotten man and woman won't hightail it from the hills and come work hard for nice salaries and benefits??

I call BS on 100% of this.
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Old 05-08-2019, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Texas
26,609 posts, read 11,139,524 times
Reputation: 6101
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Just an anecdote.....

A very active businessman I know runs various enterprises including massive amounts of commercial real estate, a payroll services and a farm that raises very valuable animals. He injects vast amounts of money into the economy in terms of contractors, services, taxes, etc.

So...today I am talking to him and ask him about one of his "guy fridays" - a fella who seemed to be from C. America somewhere who has worked for him for more than a decade. Turn out guy got a speeding ticket and that was the end - he's not allowed back in this country for a decade.

The young man was single, maybe 35 and had worked for 14 years. He has presented 100% of the proper paperworks to the employer and ALL taxes were paid. His pay was $20 an hour and he also got a place to live, a vehicle and generally treated like a King. As one can imagine, he was a GREAT and honest worker.

Now he is gone. So my friend found a "American" who helps him sometimes....$35 an hour and the worker is about 1/3 as efficient as the immigrant was. That is, in total, the "production" now costs the business dude 5X as much...to get an equiv. task done.

ALL the tax money paid in for the other guy is probably in our kitty.....but any tax money paid in for the new guy is likely to be spent on new guy (who knows? Maybe he will claim he was hurt and claim medicaid, etc. etc.).....

I haven't worked out all the angles, but it sure seems that this is exactly the type of immigrant who should be here on a guest visa or...after 14 years of paying taxes with multiple people to vouch for his work ethic, etc - should have a path to citizenship (he speaks perfect English, etc.).....

I'm sure many will disagree....but even the Govs of states like TX and Fl agree as they have outright said they need the extra labor given the job market.

My friend cannot afford to pay 5X as much (lazy American worker), so he'll shut down the farming operation and sell off some of his real estate.

You'd think Americans from all those poor places would be scrambling to come to Rhode Island here and work hard for north of $20 an hour (unskilled)...plus housing and a car, etc.

But they are not. Many jobs are filled with Irish and Russians through special services that import them as seasonal workers (in resorts, etc.). Still, there is no one to fill the year-round hard working jobs.

You can't find a paint for under $50 an hour.

It's a complicated situation but, IMHO, it shows the folly of the lack of true immigration reform (LAW). We need exactly the type of person we are rejecting. Meanwhile, the REALLY low skill crew in TX and FL (ag workers, roof workers, etc)....they seem too be fairly protected by the respective states.

One wonders why we don't want the "best people"...or, why the forgotten man and woman won't hightail it from the hills and come work hard for nice salaries and benefits??
We will always need guest workers. But if we got rid of the welfare state , more people will work. Granted you and your party wouldn't like that since that's how the party of the klan bought the minority and poor vote in the first place.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:02 PM
 
14,587 posts, read 3,867,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
We will always need guest workers. But if we got rid of the welfare state , more people will work. Granted you and your party wouldn't like that since that's how the party of the klan bought the minority and poor vote in the first place.
Which party is "mine"" Ross Perot's? Ralph Naders?

I think you need to write down your theories and see if they make sense. My actual reading of history doesn't show the Klan pushing for welfare...and, of course, that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

A bit of obsession showing in this thread...I simply told a tale, yet many are "postal" about all the voices in their own heads as opposed to actually considering the situation.

With 100's of thousands of relatively well-off people nearby in Coastal New England, there are simply not enough human beings....on welfare or not...to provide the goods and services those people desire. Each place is different. As I have suggested, the folks from KY and WV would not travel there for $20, $25 or even $30 an hour.....welfare of no welfare.

These problems are nothing new. Most every advanced country or region in the world has had to import labor - done right (proper wages, taxes, benefits), it's a good thing for all concerned....IMHO.

If some of you don't agree...fine with me. Do your thing but try to suppress those voices in your heads that tell you everything is the fault of the Confeds that started the Klan.
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:06 PM
 
14,587 posts, read 3,867,544 times
Reputation: 10640
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
I call BS on 100% of this.
Next thing you will tell us is that I don't see lots of Texas License plates around Newport in the summer, or that the Kochs don't own an estate on the Cape...or other such stuff.

If you don't believe it, then read it and go away. If you want to actually think about it, do that.

But I'd have to be a heck of a story teller to make that up...and, if I did write fiction (never have!), I'd juice it up a LOT more than that.

In this case I work with the man (the Boss) and I also met the dude in question about 8 times over the years.

It's interesting that a lot of people from your neck of the woods think Homeboy Alex Jones is NOT BS, but that real world stories are! What's in the water down there?
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Old 05-08-2019, 06:09 PM
 
3,895 posts, read 1,188,199 times
Reputation: 3057
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Which party is "mine"" Ross Perot's? Ralph Naders?

I think you need to write down your theories and see if they make sense. My actual reading of history doesn't show the Klan pushing for welfare...and, of course, that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

A bit of obsession showing in this thread...I simply told a tale, yet many are "postal" about all the voices in their own heads as opposed to actually considering the situation.

With 100's of thousands of relatively well-off people nearby in Coastal New England, there are simply not enough human beings....on welfare or not...to provide the goods and services those people desire. Each place is different. As I have suggested, the folks from KY and WV would not travel there for $20, $25 or even $30 an hour.....welfare of no welfare.

These problems are nothing new. Most every advanced country or region in the world has had to import labor - done right (proper wages, taxes, benefits), it's a good thing for all concerned....IMHO.

If some of you don't agree...fine with me. Do your thing but try to suppress those voices in your heads that tell you everything is the fault of the Confeds that started the Klan.
What in the world

pot meet kettle
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