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And as they go public, they're going to be under intense pressure to become profitable. They'll be squeezing both ends of the equation (increasing fares, and increasing commissions on the drivers.) It will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
I'm thinking that we...meaning the good people, will somehow create a "craigslist" ride sharing app that is decentralized and the corporations will be cut out of the picture.
It's not a high bar to enter...a piece of software basically.....my guess is that it could be bought almost off-the-shelf (most of the actual pieces of it) and put together for a very low price.
I'd love to volunteer for such an effort (not as a driver, but part of the team putting together a non-profit system to do this).......
I don't know why we don't already see this. I can't be the first one to have the idea.....heck, maybe even Amazon would sponsor it for some benefit to them.
I'm not gonna buy any stock in these companies..and will dump any of my mutual funds that do! Bad business models...or, more accurately, yet another example of nice businesses that should have been kept private and built up over time.
Maybe sooner than you think with respect to driveless taxis. Google (Waymo) already has driveless rideshare in Phoenix. It is limited at this point, but they have very ambitious plans to expand over the next couple years.
they announced yesterday that they WOULD deploy 10 "self-driving" vehicles - with safety drivers - over the next few months. No mention of a single one operating yet for personal transport.
That is probably about what it would actually cost to run a profitable and sustainable taxi business when maintenance and depreciation on the car and all overhead is factored in. And that is still not leaving that much left on the table for you to pay taxes on at the end of the year.
The problem is that Uber and Lyft were never designed to be full time jobs in the first place, and the price and cost structure reflects that. You can only undercut the traditional taxi and limousine business so much before somebody is left holding the bag and getting screwed. Unfortunately that is the drivers. For the customers it is a pretty good deal.
kind of like minimum wage jobs. In modern history, it's never been expected to supply a liveable income with 1 40 hr job. It's a MINIMUM - a beginning point.
U/L are great for the consumer because you:
1. know it's cheaper than a taxi
2. easier to get/schedule than a taxi
Considering both Uber and Lyft are bleeding cash, having drivers earn more is only really achievable by increasing rates for riders which starts to make those options vs a traditional cab less appetizing. The biggest advantage U/L have currently is significant mindshare, many people have become dependent on the convenience and have been weaned on the service (and to think negatively of taxi's) so even if rates were to elevate to near/equal cabs, they'd still likely enjoy an advantage.
very true! Our 15 minute attention span society - the moneymakers and moneyspenders - use U/L, not taxis unless there's some hurdle in place (NYC, airport rules, etc).
I have ridden with people that drove cheap and semi-dirty cars, had the music too loud, had no idea where they were going, and gladly 5-starred them because it was < 50% of the cab cost and kept my rating up as a rider.
and I'm 52. What do people think the millenials who've ridden in 100x the U/L's they have cabs feel about it?
The least you could do would be to explain your title stating that Uber & Lyft drivers demand $28 an hour. From your NPR link:
Quote:
In line with a minimum pay requirement now in effect in New York City, drivers in LA are asking for a guaranteed $28 hourly rate, which they say amounts to $17 after necessary auto expenses.
Earlier this year, Uber restructured its pay formula for Los Angeles drivers, cutting per-mile rates by 25 percent. That move inspired a day-long strike in March outside of the companies Redondo Beach offices.
I'm not saying that their efforts to get passengers to boycott will or even should succeed, but the truth is they are looking to make $28 an hour so that after expenses they will be left with $17 an hour.
So this earth shattering headline turned out to be a bit of a nothing burger.
I thought those were independent sub-contractors, not employees.
Don't they set their own rates, that they will work for?
I think someone is confused if they are sub-contractors.
It's a peculiar setup...nominally, the drivers are independent contractors. From what I understand, Uber and Lyft set the rates. The driver can accept or decline to take the fare.
From what I have been able to gather, Uber in particular has been steadily increasing their take of the total passenger fare, at the expense of the driver, who is paying pretty much all the costs and assuming all the risk. When Uber started out, drivers were getting about 2/3rds of the total fare, with Uber taking the remainder. But Uber has been increasing its cut at the expense of the drivers, so that in some markets, Uber is now getting 55% of the fare, and the driver gets 45%. Uber tried to ameliorate this situation by permitting tipping in the app, but the Uber customer base has been slow to respond, primarily because one of the advantages Uber advertised from the outset was that no tipping was necessary, which gave them an price advantage over other livery carriers. The passengers, who were quite happy not having to tip, are generally not too generous with tips now, even though Uber is trying to make it part of the deal so as to avoid having to relinquish any portion of the total fare they have appropriated for themselves.
Per the drivers I have heard from, Lyft isn't quite the pirate outfit that Uber is, but most drivers can't rely on Lyft alone to deliver enough business to cover the cost of operating a vehicle. Lyft doesn't skim as much money off the top of each fare as Uber does, but you get fewer pings in a shift from Lyft than Uber. Many drivers who want to make ride-share a full-time gig are working both apps simultaneously. In general, the drivers I've heard from don't mind dealing with Lyft, but have come to hate driving for Uber, primarily because driving for Uber delivers ever-diminishing returns as time goes on.
OK - let's look at this in terms of the numbers
$28 per hour = $.47 per minute
Actually doesn't sound that unreasonable.
Yep, especially true when you factor in that its their own personal vehicle being used, their own fuel, their own commercial insurance coverage...$28 a hour seems about right when all these things are factored in, for an hours drive.
It's a peculiar setup...nominally, the drivers are independent contractors. From what I understand, Uber and Lyft set the rates. The driver can accept or decline to take the fare.
Misclassified employees. Uber cannot set rates for sub-contractors. That is employment.
Sub-contractors, contract with others, setting their own worth.
Uber wants control, as if these people are their employees. When they are not.
IRS: form SS-8
Misclassification of employee status
I found an article about this on the Sac Bee in which they raise the question of the legitimacy of calling these drivers independent contractors:
Quote:
Like so many California families, Karim Bayumi of Anaheim, his wife and two young children are doing everything they can to scrape by. Bayumi drives for a large rideshare company as his primary source of income. On March 11, Bayumi’s rate was cut from 80 cents a mile to 60 cents a mile, just barely above the government mileage reimbursement rate. No warning. No explanation. In an instant, a chunk of his income just disappeared.
Uber, Lyft and other app-based employers call drivers like Bayumi “independent contractors,” meaning, in theory, Bayumi is his own boss. But he has no ability to set his own rates, and the companies have the power to deactivate him at any time through no fault of his own.
The companies even mandate drivers take a certain number of rides per week if they want to earn the best possible rate, meaning his flexibility to work when he wants is extremely limited.
Bayumi works in what’s been called the gig economy. But like so many others, for him, this isn’t a gig. It’s his job. And he’s not even making minimum wage. He doesn’t have unemployment insurance. There’s no workers’ compensation if he’s injured. No overtime if he puts in extra-long days. https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed...230178194.html
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